WesWorld

In addition to the aforementioned minesweepers, three classes:

Filipino Basilan-class heavy cruiser, laid down 1923

Length, 520 ft x Beam, 81.0 ft x Depth, 27.5 ft
15885 tons normal displacement (14432 tons standard)

Main battery: 9 x 8.0-inch (3 x 3; 1 superfiring)
Secondary battery: 8 x 4.0-inch (4 x 2)
AA battery: 8 x 1.6-inch (40mm)
Light battery: 4 x 1.0-inch (25mm)

Weight of broadside: 2577 lbs

4 TT, 21.0"

Main belt, 8.0 inches; ends unarmored
Torpedo bulkhead, 1.0 inches
Armor deck, average 2.5 inches
C.T., 2.5 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 8.0" / secondary, 2.0"
AA, 0.5" shields / light guns, 0.2" shields

Maximum speed for 96897 shp = 30.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 13400 nm / 12 kts

Typical complement: 707-920


Estimated cost, $14.086 million (£3.521 million)

Remarks:

Relative extent of belt armor, 111 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 322 tons = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 4043 tons = 25 pct

Belt 1401 tons = 9 pct
Torpedo bulkhead 344 tons = 2 pct
Deck 1191 tons = 7 pct
C.T. 34 tons = 0 pct
Armament 1073 tons = 7 pct

Machinery ........................ 3239 tons = 20 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 6221 tons = 39 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1986 tons = 13 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 75 tons = 0 pct
-----
15885 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 4.2 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 13900 tons
Standard displacement: 14432 tons
Normal service: 15885 tons
Full load: 16984 tons

Loading submergence 736 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.08

Shellfire needed to sink: 14124 lbs = 55.2 x 8.0-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 2.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 60 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.28

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.48
Sharpness coefficient: 0.38
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 6.33
'Natural speed' for length = 22.8 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 62 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 110 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 148 percent


Displacement factor: 122 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.02
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 148 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.58
(for 23.2 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +6.6 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.12

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Filipino T-1-class torpedo boat, laid down 1923

Length, 181 ft x Beam, 17.7 ft x Depth, 7.5 ft
316 tons normal displacement (283 tons standard)

Main battery: 1 x 2.2-inch
Light battery: 2 x 0.3-inch

Weight of broadside: 6 lbs

4 TT, 18.0"

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 0.5" shields


Maximum speed for 9954 shp = 27.90 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 4700 nm / 10 kts

Typical complement: 37-49


Estimated cost, $399,000 (£100,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Caution: Very cramped ship with excessively poor habitability;
lacks suitable working space.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 1 tons = 0 pct
Machinery ........................ 171 tons = 54 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 104 tons = 33 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 39 tons = 13 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 0 tons = 0 pct
-----
316 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.5 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 276 tons
Standard displacement: 283 tons
Normal service: 316 tons
Full load: 341 tons

Loading submergence 54 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.12

Shellfire needed to sink: 108 lbs = 19.3 x 2.2-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.1
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 51 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.05

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.02

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.46
Sharpness coefficient: 0.32
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.12
'Natural speed' for length = 13.5 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 75 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 177 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 39 percent


Displacement factor: 47 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.60
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 24 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.90
(for 11.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +3.4 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.70

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Filipino P-1-class Patrol Boat, laid down 1923

Length, 230 ft x Beam, 25.5 ft x Depth, 7.5 ft
754 tons normal displacement (676 tons standard)

Main battery: 1 x 3.0-inch
Light battery: 2 x 0.5-inch

Weight of broadside: 14 lbs

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 0.5" shields


Maximum speed for 1876 shp = 16.50 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 6500 nm (12038km) / 10 kts

Typical complement: 72-94


Estimated cost, $387,000 (£97,000)

Remarks:

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Excellent seaboat; comfortable and able to fight her guns
in the heaviest weather.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 2 tons = 0 pct
Machinery ........................ 63 tons = 8 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 445 tons = 59 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 94 tons = 13 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 150 tons = 20 pct
-----
754 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.7 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 660 tons
Standard displacement: 676 tons
Normal service: 754 tons
Full load: 813 tons

Loading submergence 119 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.02

Shellfire needed to sink: 1851 lbs = 137.1 x 3.0-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 75 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.03

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.66

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.60
Sharpness coefficient: 0.38
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 7.72
'Natural speed' for length = 15.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 48 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 52 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 105 percent


Displacement factor: 260 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.84
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 67 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.73
(for 9.5 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +0.5 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.91

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

So you´ve decided to stay outside the Cleito Treaty?

I'm not very keen on that Basilian class cruiser. The armour is very very heavy whilst the speed is maybe slightly slow. With only 9x8" on 14000t she is also quite underarmed.

How about 9x10" guns?

Displacement:
13,049 t light; 13,760 t standard; 15,244 t normal; 16,371 t full load
Loading submergence 784 tons/feet

Dimensions:
639.76 ft x 68.24 ft x 24.44 ft (normal load)
195.00 m x 20.80 m x 7.45 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 3 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns
16 - 0.79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 4,870 lbs / 2,209 kg
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 5.51" / 140 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.51" / 140 mm
Armour deck 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,000 shp / 70,870 Kw = 31.06 kts
Range 4,100nm at 20.00 kts

Complement:
685 - 891

Cost:
£4.109 million / $16.438 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 609 tons, 4.0 %
Armour: 2,804 tons, 18.4 %
Belts: 937 tons, 6.1 %, Armament: 831 tons, 5.5 %, Armour Deck: 999 tons, 6.6 %
Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.2 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,175 tons, 20.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,411 tons, 42.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,195 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Metacentric height 3.6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.14
Shellfire needed to sink: 17,276 lbs / 7,836 Kg = 34.6 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.9
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 50 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.73
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.500
Sharpness coefficient: 0.34
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.89
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 44
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 99.0 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 152.4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 108 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.97
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs / square foot or 680 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.49
(for 21.33 ft / 6.50 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4.85 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

Hey!

Don´t give him the idea of outbuilding our cruiser forces!

Won´t you ever learn? ;o)

Ten inch guns will push them into your battleship catigory for sure.

I too am curious to see if the Philipines is willing to sign the CT, or remain that rare few excentric nations to be ablr to build outside them but be horribly govern'd by the N [SIZE=1]2[/SIZE] rule.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I too am curious to see if the Philipines is willing to sign the CT, or remain that rare few excentric nations to be ablr to build outside them but be horribly govern'd by the N [SIZE=1]2[/SIZE] rule.

I don't remember seeing this particular rule, could you enlighten me please?????

Hooman, assassin: For now, the Phils will remain a maverick. In five or six years, maybe a different government might decide to sign the CT, but not the current one. Presidente Monastario dislikes diplomacy.

If that happens, the Basilians will have to be rated as capital ships...hmmm...

Red Admiral, thanks much for the design, I think I'll build it.

I'm still getting the hang of SpringSharp, so help and suggestions are always appreciated. One thing, how does one simulate a collier/tanker? I tried duplicating the U.S. Jupiter, inputing her 'cargo' as misc. weight, and got a stability warning. Were real colliers like that or am I doing something wrong?

On second thought...if the Basilans are counted as capital ships, it might well be feasible for Philly to join the Cleito Treaty in a year or so. But, again, the key is convincing El Presidente.

One thing I forgot to note is that the Basilan-class CAs are de facto replacements for the Manila-class predreds, the first of which will otherwise be due for a rebuild in '28. So it actually makes a wee bit of sense to build them as mini-BCs...or, dare I say, Panzerschiffe?

(p.s. I, too, am curious about the exact definition of the "N2" rule.)

Basically, its the notion that numbers will overcome quality, and it's from the work of F.W. Lanchester.

Total combat power is equal to the "quality" coefficient times the square of the numerical strength.

Here's a link:

http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/war.htm

I'll cite an example from the page, showing that although a machinegunner has the firepower of 16 riflemen, it takes 250 machinegunners to equal the combat power of 1000 riflemen:

"Thus the fighting strengths of the two forces are equal when the products of the squares of the numerical strengths times the coefficients of effectiveness are equal. In other words, the strength of a fighting force is equal to the product of the square of numerical strength times the effectiveness of an individual fighting unit, cini2.

This justifies the Principle of Concentration. There are economies of scale in military strength.

Lanchester illustrates the implications of this deduction by considering the case in which a machine gunner has the effectiveness of sixteen riflemen. He then asks how many machine gunners would be required to replace 1000 riflemen. By his calculation the number is

1000/(16)1/2 = 1000/4 = 250."

So if you're opponent is twice as numerous, you must be four times as good.

This is hard to do...

When I studied tactics my teacher had a quite good saying

"det är skillnad på kraftsamling och folksamling"

in english "there is a difference between a gathering of force and a gathering of people".

He used it to discribe such occasions when a small force beat a much larger force such as the battles of Narva, Klizow and battles during the finnsih winter war(he was from the army).

Quoted

He used it to discribe such occasions when a small force beat a much larger force

The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way the "smart money" bets.

One can find individual historical instances of just about anything. But in the long run, the N2 rule tends to predominate.

Here's the final Basilan-class design. She's already been laid down (in Q4), but the only changes are changing the light guns from 20mm to 25mm, and adding shields to the secondaries and light guns.

PRS Basilan, Filipino heavy cruiser, laid down 1923

Displacement:
13,048 t light; 13,759 t standard; 15,243 t normal; 16,369 t full load
Loading submergence 784 tons/feet

Dimensions:
639.76 ft x 68.24 ft x 24.44 ft (normal load)
195.00 m x 20.80 m x 7.45 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 3 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
12 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns
16 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 4,875 lbs
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 5.51" / 140 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 5.51", secondaries 1" shields, light guns 0.2" shields
Armour deck 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 95,000 shp / 70,870 Kw = 31.06 kts
Range 4,100nm at 20.00 kts

Complement:
686 - 892

Cost:
£4.111 million / $16.445 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 609 tons, 4 %
Armour: 2,823 tons, 19 %
Belts: 937 tons, 6 %, Armament: 849 tons, 6 %, Armour Deck: 1000 tons, 7 %
Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0.2 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 3,176 tons, 21 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,389 tons, 42 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,195 tons, 14 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Metacentric height 3.6

Remarks:
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.14
Shellfire needed to sink: 17,255 lbs = 34.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.8
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 50 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.73
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.500
Sharpness coefficient: 0.34
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.89
'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 44
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 99 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 152 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 109 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.96
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs / square foot or 680 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.49
(for 21.33 ft / 6.50 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4.85 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

Adequate speed, decen armor, and big guns !

What's a poor cruiser to do? Sail the Atlantic, and you run into El Cid. Sail the Pacific, and you run into Basilan.

Indeed, Basilan is an impressive design.

Because of CT restrictions signatories could only answer her with capital ships and the vast majority of those lack the speed to catch her.

Really not a bad design. Maybe the lack of a decent secondary battery has to be mentioned so once facing a TT-attack she might be easily overwhelmed. 100mm lack the punch to stop a large TB or DD....and with only 12 such guns Basilan also lacks the "rain of shells"-ability.

The answer to the likes of El Cid and Basilan is torpedo bombers, or escort cruisers with 9.2" - 10" guns. Cruiser-killers on a raiding mission would probably decline action with a slow, but heavily armed CE, because any damage impairing the raider's speed at least means the raiding mission is over, and could possibly be fatal when the BBs arrive...

Here's a couple of variants. They've got adequate range and speed for convoy escort work, good seakeeping, and have plenty of fight in them. Fighting a cruiser-killer they will die of course, but their opposition will regret the encounter as well:

Russian Escort Cruiser, laid down 1931

Length, 132.0 m x Beam, 15.0 m x Depth, 4.2 m
6709 tonnes normal displacement (6018 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 4 x 25.4-cm (2 x 2)
Secondary battery: 4 x 15.0-cm (2 x 2)
AA battery: 4 x 10.0-cm (4 x 1)
Light battery: 16 x 3.7-cm (8 x 2)

Weight of broadside: 1164 kg

Main belt, 20.0 cm; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 11.0 cm
Conning tower, 10.0 cm

Battery armor:
Main, 20.0 cm / secondary, 5.0 cm
AA, 2.5 cm shields / light guns, 2.5 cm shields

Aircraft - 1 Seaplane, 1 Crane

Maximum speed for 9955 shaft kw = 20.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 10700 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 371-482


Estimated cost, $9.131 million (£2.283 million)

Remarks:

Relative extent of belt armor, 57 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 320 tonnes = 5 pct
Armor, total ..................... 2473 tonnes = 37 pct

Belt 445 tonnes = 7 pct
Deck 1469 tonnes = 22 pct
C.T. 30 tonnes = 0 pct
Armament 529 tonnes = 8 pct

Machinery ........................ 399 tonnes = 6 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 2453 tonnes = 37 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1039 tonnes = 15 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 25 tonnes = 0 pct
-----
6709 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.6 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 5670 tonnes
Standard displacement: 6018 tonnes
Normal service: 6709 tonnes
Full load: 7236 tonnes

Loading submergence 1719 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.10

Shellfire needed to sink: 5529 kg = 24.3 x 25.4-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 2.3
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.95

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.22

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.80
Sharpness coefficient: 0.44
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 7.02
'Natural speed' for length = 20.8 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 47 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 57 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 118 percent


Displacement factor: 113 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 477 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.00
(for 3.83 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment -0.43 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

432.96 x 49.20 x 13.78; 12.56 -- Dimensions
0.80 -- Block coefficient
1931 -- Year laid down
20.00 / 10700 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
25 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
4 x 10.00; 2; 0 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
4 x 5.91; 2 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
4 x 3.94 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
16 x 1.46 -- Fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
7.87 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 57 -- Belt armor; relative extent
4.33 / 3.94 -- Deck / CT
7.87 / 1.97 / 0.98 / 0.98 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Russian Escort Cruiser, laid down 1931

Length, 133.0 m x Beam, 15.9 m x Depth, 4.2 m
7164 tonnes normal displacement (6420 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 6 x 23.4-cm (3 x 2)
Secondary battery: 8 x 10.0-cm (4 x 2)
AA battery: 16 x 3.7-cm (8 x 2)

Weight of broadside: 1188 kg

Main belt, 20.0 cm; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 10.0 cm
Conning tower, 10.0 cm

Battery armor:
Main, 20.0 cm / secondary, 2.5 cm
AA, 2.5 cm shields

Aircraft - 6 Seaplanes, 2 Catapults

Maximum speed for 10448 shaft kw = 20.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 11000 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 389-506


Estimated cost, $9.516 million (£2.379 million)

Remarks:

Relative extent of belt armor, 57 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 327 tonnes = 5 pct
Armor, total ..................... 2582 tonnes = 36 pct

Belt 464 tonnes = 6 pct
Deck 1427 tonnes = 20 pct
C.T. 31 tonnes = 0 pct
Armament 660 tonnes = 9 pct

Machinery ........................ 419 tonnes = 6 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 2581 tonnes = 36 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1105 tonnes = 15 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 150 tonnes = 2 pct
-----
7164 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.7 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 6059 tonnes
Standard displacement: 6420 tonnes
Normal service: 7164 tonnes
Full load: 7730 tonnes

Loading submergence 1836 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.10

Shellfire needed to sink: 6009 kg = 33.8 x 23.4-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 2.5
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.84

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.21

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.80
Sharpness coefficient: 0.44
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 6.92
'Natural speed' for length = 20.9 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 47 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 57 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 125 percent


Displacement factor: 115 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 477 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.00
(for 3.98 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment -0.34 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

436.24 x 52.15 x 13.78; 13.05 -- Dimensions
0.80 -- Block coefficient
1931 -- Year laid down
20.00 / 11000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
150 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
6 x 9.21; 3; 0 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
8 x 3.94; 4 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
16 x 1.46 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
7.87 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 57 -- Belt armor; relative extent
3.94 / 3.94 -- Deck / CT
7.87 / 0.98 / 0.98 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well, I just tweaked Red Admiral's suggested design so that it had 25mm light guns (the Filipino standard) and shields on the secondaries - so blame him for the 3.94-inchers. (No seriously thanks very much RA for the design! )

The Philippines is now developing a 130mm/5.1" gun, and when Basilan comes in for her first refit she will probably receive them.

Adm. K - pretty good-looking CE designs. I may have to look into a few of those to use my CDA tonnage.

I've got the perfect "pill" for this "sickness"...

Stomp, Dutch Pocket battleship laid down 1928

Displacement:
18.870 t light; 19.896 t standard; 22.029 t normal; 23.647 t full load
Loading submergence 1.008 tons/feet

Dimensions:
721,78 ft x 75,46 ft x 27,07 ft (normal load)
220,00 m x 23,00 m x 8,25 m

Armament:
6 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 3 guns)
16 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (8 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
14 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
8 - 0,79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 7.024 lbs / 3.186 kg

Armour:
Belt 11,02" / 280 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 106 % of normal area
Main turrets 11,02" / 280 mm, 2nd turrets 75,00" / 1.905 mm
AA gun shields 0,04" / 1 mm
Armour deck 2,95" / 75 mm, Conning tower 1,97" / 50 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 1,57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.158 shp / 74.718 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts

Complement:
904 - 1.175

Cost:
£7,005 million / $28,018 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 878 tons, 4,0 %
Armour: 6.651 tons, 30,2 %
Belts: 2.352 tons, 10,7 %, Armament: 1.598 tons, 7,3 %, Armour Deck: 1.927 tons, 8,7 %
Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,2 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 740 tons, 3,4 %
Machinery: 3.118 tons, 14,2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8.172 tons, 37,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.159 tons, 14,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,2 %

Metacentric height 4,3

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,16
Shellfire needed to sink: 19.621 lbs / 8.900 Kg = 22,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 2,6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 54 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,60
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,09

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,523
Sharpness coefficient: 0,34
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7,88
'Natural speed' for length: 26,87 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 105,5 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 136,6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 110 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1,00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 148 lbs / square foot or 724 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,01
(for 18,37 ft / 5,60 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0,64 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00





If one of this "pills" finds out that Basilan "virus"...then the virus better runs (and it hasn't got that much of a difference of speed anyway) or gets toasted

This encounter might be closer than it looks.

1) At the ranges that a running fight will take place (over 20,000 yards), most hits will be on the deck, and Basilan's 10" shells will penetrate Stomp's 3" deck armor about as well as Stomp's 12" shells will penetrate Basilan's 2" deck armor. And any belt hits will be at highly oblique angles.

2)

Basilan's main battery salvo weighs about 4500 lbs.

Stomp's main battery salvo weighs about 5100 lbs.

Stomp (at 19,896 tons Standard) will sink after 19,621 lbs of penetrating shell hits.

Basilan (at 13,759 tons Standard) will sink after 17,255 lbs of penetrating shell hits.

So in a long range running fight, Stomp indeed has the advantage, but it looks close enough that the fortunes of war will have their say as to the outcome.

That a ship outweighed by nearly 50% can make the fight this close is quite a comment on the quality of the smaller design.

Not bad points, though I tend to think that a 12' hit will always cause quite more effect on a smaller ship than one of 10' on a bigger one .


However, I posted the wrong design avobe. I have 3 different sketches for cruiser-hunter pocket battleships, and the one I put avobe was the rawest and least refined of them all.


The design which I meant is this one; Slightly smaller dimensions and better armored in the most vital places. Lighter heavy heavy AA battery (there were too many for a ship this size), 2nd battery with more realistic protection for an all-or-nothing design of this size, and a somewhat smaller range. The main battery and deck armor are increased in exchange.



Stomp, Dutch Pocket battleship laid down 1928

Displacement:
19.010 t light; 20.028 t standard; 21.945 t normal; 23.391 t full load
Loading submergence 1.006 tons/feet

Dimensions:
715,22 ft x 75,46 ft x 26,90 ft (normal load)
218,00 m x 23,00 m x 8,20 m

Armament:
6 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 3 guns)
16 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (8 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
8 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
8 - 0,79" / 20 mm guns
Weight of broadside 6.947 lbs / 3.151 kg

Armour:
Belt 11,02" / 280 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 107 % of normal area
Main turrets 12,01" / 305 mm, 2nd turrets 0,98" / 25 mm
AA gun shields 0,04" / 1 mm
Armour deck 3,94" / 100 mm, Conning tower 1,97" / 50 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 1,38" / 35 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.562 shp / 75.019 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 9.000nm at 15,00 kts

Complement:
901 - 1.171

Cost:
£6,999 million / $27,996 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 868 tons, 4,0 %
Armour: 6.995 tons, 31,9 %
Belts: 2.355 tons, 10,7 %, Armament: 1.403 tons, 6,4 %, Armour Deck: 2.566 tons, 11,7 %
Conning Tower: 33 tons, 0,2 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 638 tons, 2,9 %
Machinery: 3.131 tons, 14,3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7.966 tons, 36,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.935 tons, 13,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,2 %

Metacentric height 4,6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,20
Shellfire needed to sink: 19.572 lbs / 8.878 Kg = 22,6 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 2,6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 50 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,55
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,06

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,529
Sharpness coefficient: 0,35
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7,81
'Natural speed' for length: 26,74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim: 47
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 105,7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 134,4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 108 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1,00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs / square foot or 712 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,00
(for 18,04 ft / 5,50 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0,32 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00




I have an smaller version of 16k tons standard with somewhat less belt and turret armor, but, having less speed, is not that good as cruiser-hunter.



[edit]also noteworthy is the lack of a TDS in the Phillipino cruiser, while Stomp has got decent (for its size) anti torpedo bulkheads. That makes a big difference between both ships, for while Stomp may be able to take 2 torpedo hits, Basilan (according to the TDS rules) may go down with just one.

If I go around the TDS and place no bulkhead armor, it's clear the ship will get both smaller and better armored at the same time. I think that it's a quite important point in explaining why a ship 50% bigger isn't totally superior than the smaller one.

Mmmm, pocket battleships!

The reason Basilan doesn't have a torpedo bulkhead is because you're not supposed to use one on a ship with less than 80' of beam.

Y'know, I've got my own "PB" cure for "Stompitis"...but it's a propitary recipe, and will only be revealed at the proper time.

Quoted

That a ship outweighed by nearly 50% can make the fight this close is quite a comment on the quality of the smaller design.

Maybe I should let the Italians design all my ships?