WesWorld

It wasn't until my and RA discussed this that I realised it should have been held this year so therefore it's time for a small timewarp.

The event will be held at Cowes on October 30th 1937.

All the usual Schineder rules apply and route lengths etc and this is the thread for your entries. It's open to anyone who wishes to send a seaplane racer. Please include names of pilots, two-three planes can be entered by one nation either as offical air force teams or company entries (aka sales gimmicks!).

Oh, what the heck: Heinkel's going to send a Heinkel team with a pair of new-build aircraft based around the third and fourth prototype DB-604 engines, tuned for racing and fueled with benzene and equipped with methanol-water injection, and fitted with a 6-bladed prop. So, it's distinctly possible that the engine might not make it through the race, but if it does.... who knows? Pilots are Hans Dieterle and Erich Warsitz.




Heinkel He-121 V-1

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1941

Description

Flying Boat / Seaplane
Monoplane with Struts
Conventional Fuselage

A WW Heinkel Schneider Trophy racer, powered by a racing DB-604 running on methanol/benzene/etc fuel. Fitted with a combination (radiator plus evaporative) cooling system for the engine, to try to ensure the 24-cylinder engine stays cool. User weight is for the floats and the associated struts (main float is fixed, stabilizing floats fold upwards to the wing tips).

Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 7,200 lbs
Weight (empty) 6,173 lbs

Length 31.5 ft
Wingspan 32 ft
Wing Area 195 sq ft
Sweep 0 degrees

Engines 1
DB-604R
Piston

3,628 hp
at 5,000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0.570 million in 1941
Total number procured 2


Performance:

Top Speed 430 kts = 494 mph
at 1,200 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 15,000 ft

Range 200 nm = 230 miles
with 74 lbs payload
78 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 830 fpm

Cruise 428 kts = 492 mph
at 1,200 ft

Corner Speed 260 KIAS =
264 kts at 1,200 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 27.0 deg/sec
Radius 1,898 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 12.4 ft

Bypass Ratio 60

Engine Weight 2200 lbs
Overall Efficiency 22.5 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1.1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 500 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 10.00 g
Wing Taper 0.1
Wing Thickness at Root 1 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.4

Number of Nacelles 0
Length 9 ft
Diameter 3.5 ft
Fullness 0.45

Fuselage Diameter 3.75 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.35

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 72 percent
Unstreamlined section 1.3 sq ft

User equipment 1,000 lbs

Hrolf, you can sim the floats as nacelles which will massively increase the drag. You're probably looking at 25ft long and 3ft diameter, probably more if there's just a single float.

Also, the engine sfc at full throttle will be a lot higher probably around 0.60-0.70lb/hp-hr with MW-50 boost. Might even be a bit higher for ethanol.



A quick hack up of the Macchi C72bis with six bladed propeller, new wing, oil radiator and enclosed cockpit.

The old Macchi C.72 has a race engine rated at 3200hp which has been successfully tested for 3 hours. This equates to a race speed of around 715km/h. This aircraft will be piloted by Lt.Luigi Gianella.

The new Macchi C.72bis has an uprated race engine rated at 3500hp. Along with some reductions in drag this should give a sustained speed of around 730km/h. Cpt. Agello will be piloting this aircraft.

The RAF High Speed Flight will be attending with two Supermarine S.7b flown by Henry Waghorn and John Boothman.

The ailing R.J. Mitchell has refined the S.7 further this year with some aerodynamic improvements but mainly hopes are pinned on the RR 'R' III with its ethanol/ petrol mixture and now producing nearly 3,000hp.


(S.7b almost idenitcal)
Aircraft Type or Name:

Supermarine S.7b Schneider

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1937

Description

Flying Boat / Seaplane
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A Schneider Trophy racing seaplane designed by R.J. Mitchell. Powered by RR 'R' III V-12 with ethanol additive fuel. Evap cooling on starboard wing and three ventral radiators.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 6,250 lbs
Weight (empty) 5,310 lbs

Length 31.8 ft
Wingspan 35 ft
Wing Area 200 sq ft
Sweep 2 degrees

Engines 1
Rolls-Royce 'R' III
Piston

2,860 hp



Crew 1


Typical cost $0.351 million in 1937
Total number procured 3


Performance:

Top Speed 383 kts = 440 mph
at 0 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 27,500 ft

Range 180 nm = 207 miles
with 32 lbs payload
34 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 7,185 fpm

Cruise 355 kts = 408 mph
at 0 ft

Corner Speed 184 KIAS =
184 kts at 0 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 21.6 deg/sec
Radius 1,655 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 11 ft

Bypass Ratio 49.72

Engine Weight 1990 lbs
Overall Efficiency 17 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 450 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 6.00 g
Wing Taper 0.2
Wing Thickness at Root 1 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.3

Number of Nacelles 2
Length 24.5 ft
Diameter 1.75 ft
Fullness 0.3

Fuselage Diameter 3.85 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.4

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 72 percent
Unstreamlined section 1 sq ft

User equipment 50 lbs


Gloster will also enter an aircraft. Henry Folland and his team have designed an aircraft remarkably similar to the S.7 but with a smaller wing and much lighter weight. It is also powered by an 'R' III engine thanks to the donation of the engine by Rolls-Royce who have built eight 'R' III engines this year. The Gloster VII will be flown by an unknown flyer, Alex Henshaw.

Aircraft Type or Name:

Gloster VII

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1937

Description

Flying Boat / Seaplane
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A Schneider Trophy racing seaplane powered by an RR 'R' III V-12 with ethanol additive fuel. Evaporative cooling on both wings and two ventral radiators and two oil coolers.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 5,400 lbs
Weight (empty) 4,453 lbs

Length 29 ft
Wingspan 28 ft
Wing Area 115 sq ft
Sweep 1 degrees

Engines 1
Rolls-Royce 'R' III
Piston

2,860 hp



Crew 1


Typical cost $0.407 million in 1937
Total number procured 2


Performance:

Top Speed 419 kts = 482 mph
at 0 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 35,500 ft

Range 180 nm = 207 miles
with 175 lbs payload
184 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 8,503 fpm

Cruise 355 kts = 408 mph
at 0 ft

Corner Speed 223 KIAS =
223 kts at 0 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 17.8 deg/sec
Radius 2,425 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 11 ft

Bypass Ratio 49.72

Engine Weight 1990 lbs
Overall Efficiency 17 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 450 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 6.00 g
Wing Taper 0.1
Wing Thickness at Root 1 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.35

Number of Nacelles 1.5
Length 25.2 ft
Diameter 1.7 ft
Fullness 0.3

Fuselage Diameter 3.75 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.4

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 75 percent
Unstreamlined section 1.2 sq ft

User equipment 50 lbs

Could Peru make 2 planes?

A revised version of the sim, with a 27 foot long, 4 foot diameter main float beneath the fuselage. Fuel consumption has been increased to a prodigous 0.80 lbs/hp-hr to account for the benzene/methanol + MW-30 injection Range is also 160 nm, to give a cushion in case of excess fuel burn.



Heinkel He-121 V-1

General Type:
Airplane = 1
Airship = 2
Orbiter = 3
1

Year of First Flight: 1941

Description

Flying Boat / Seaplane
Monoplane with Struts
Conventional Fuselage


A WW Heinkel Schneider Trophy racer, powered by a racing DB-604 running on methanol/benzene/etc fuel. Fitted with a combination (radiator plus evaporative) cooling system for the engine, to try to ensure the 24-cylinder engine stays cool.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 7,200 lbs
Weight (empty) 5,870 lbs

Length 31.5 ft
Wingspan 32 ft
Wing Area 195 sq ft
Sweep 0 degrees

Engines 1
DB-604R
Piston

4,158 hp
at 5,000 ft


Crew 1


Typical cost $0.703 million in 1941
Total number procured 2


Performance:

Top Speed 424 kts = 488 mph
at 1,200 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 15,000 ft

Range 160 nm = 184 miles
with 49 lbs payload
53 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 10,786 fpm

Cruise 405 kts = 466 mph
at 1,200 ft

Corner Speed 261 KIAS =
265 kts at 1,200 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 27.7 deg/sec
Radius 1,846 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 13.75 ft

Bypass Ratio 42.5

Engine Weight 2200 lbs
Overall Efficiency 12.5 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1.1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 500 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 10.00 g
Wing Taper 0.1
Wing Thickness at Root 1 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.4

Number of Nacelles 1
Length 27 ft
Diameter 4 ft
Fullness 0.45

Fuselage Diameter 3.75 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.35

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 72 percent
Unstreamlined section 1.3 sq ft

User equipment 0 lbs

Quoted

Originally posted by ALVAMA
Could Peru make 2 planes?

The problem for Peru, sim-wise, is that Peru has, to this point in the sim, shown no home-grown design or construction expertise. To go from that to being competitive in a race setting is extremely unrealistic. Peru, or a Peruvian citizen, could sponsor a team from another country that has that sort of expertise, but the timing is bad for such a thing: Peru is finishing up a war with it's neighbors at the time, and there's still some level of civil unrest to be sorted out as well. Not exactly the time a country's going to be devoting a chunk of money to a long-shot race sponsorship, that most of it's people will never hear about.

I was thinking of something like this with Manzo at the controls, but it is probably pushing things a bit too far.

Peru just hasn't got the know-how or money to enter unless they pick up an old seaplane racer from abroad. Also there's the entrance fee, I think RA set it as 50,000 francs or something?

Roo, maybe for Schneider 1947?

Looks like a nice tri-nations fight so far...

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Peru just hasn't got the know-how or money to enter unless they pick up an old seaplane racer from abroad. Also there's the entrance fee, I think RA set it as 50,000 francs or something? .

Historically the entrance fee was set quite high to discourage frivolous entries. Its a lot of money developing the engines, the aircraft and the pilots, that takes years. The Italian high speed flight was a full time venture taking up quite a few resources and pilots. Useful for pushing technological limits.

Engine lifetime is probably the key issue, maybe cooling as well given the large amounts of power and limited surface areas.

Canada would probably try an entry, but I'd need some help writing it up.

There will be 3 Australian and 1 Mexican entries. Specs as soon as I can write them.

Hmmmm. What's the length of the course? The Wiki entry on the Schneider Trophy says it was 350 km.........

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Hmmmm. What's the length of the course? The Wiki entry on the Schneider Trophy says it was 350 km.........

It was around the 350km mark depending on where it was held. It gives quite a problem for running on ethanol or with methanol boosting due to just how much fuel you have to carry.

I'm not sure how some of these countries can afford to build the planes or the engines in order to compete.

If it's 350 km, I'll have to tweak the He-121 design a little bit, but those two British designs will need to double their fuel supply....

Haven't you heard of inflight refuelling?

The Philippines will not be participating as a competitor, however...

...the Armada will send a delegation, consisiting primarily of pilots, to scout out the recent developments in floatplane design...

...the Aguinaldo Aeronautical Company will be soliciting orders for its AAC-1F Lawin in a floatplane form (as well as the landplane variant, fresh off the runway)...


...and the recently formed Davao Air-Sea Travel and Recreational Designers (DASTARD) Company will be present, hawking their design concepts.

Flights will be undertaken every day of the DAB (Davao Air Boat)-1:


While a model of the DAB-X will be on display, as the small company seeks investors for thier grand scheme...




Yes, folks, Filipino insanity has returned. Mwahahaha!!

Funny thing is, one of my colleagues (Dr.-Ing. Ulf-Dieter Ulken) is a founder of the Flyship GmbH. The Flyship 80 is the result of a long development phase and technology build up.

On YouTube (for example) you can find some footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AikclNbRQ00

He once held a long internal training on the whole stuff. It was really great...and I earned me 2 GB of stuff on ground effect crafts alone. :o)

Ground effect aircraft are one of those interesting in between areas that are unlikely to really ever really take off. Much like hydrofoils and SES. Although WiGs do work over land, it's unlikely to ever to be able to fly at low level over populated country. This pretty much restricts it to water travel. Short hops like say across Lake Geneva; more efficient than a helictoper and most likely faster, but not as flexible. Not as economical as a hydrofoil but faster. Not as economical as a ship but again faster. You can attain greater efficiencies by building a larger WiG, but the sheer cost and size of the thing begins to limit where you can fit it.

It's great for a little performance envelope but really lacks the flexibility to effectively compete with other modes of transport. It's difficult to uproot ship-helicopter-aeroplane.

Sim courtesy of Hood;


CADRE (Canadian Government project) CSR-37 technology demonstrator

Year of First Flight: 1937

Description

Flying Boat / Seaplane
Monoplane
Conventional Fuselage

A Schneider Trophy racing seaplane powered by an Orenda Oneida with ethanol additive fuel. Evaporative cooling on both wings and one chin radiators with an oil cooler.



Characteristics:

Weight (maximum) 5,200 lbs
Weight (empty) 4,299 lbs

Length 33.5 ft
Wingspan 25 ft
Wing Area 115 sq ft
Sweep 2 degrees

Engines 1
Orenda Oneida
Piston

2,450 hp



Crew 1


Typical cost $0.410 million in 1937
Total number procured 2


Performance:

Top Speed 400 kts = 460 mph
at 0 ft
Mach N/A

Operational Ceiling 29,500 ft

Range 180 nm = 207 miles
with 143 lbs payload
150 lbs released at halfway point

Climb 7,425 fpm

Cruise 355 kts = 408 mph
at 0 ft

Corner Speed 226 KIAS =
226 kts at 0 ft
Mach N/A
Turning Rate 17.6 deg/sec
Radius 2,489 ft



Internal Data:

Intake / Fan Diameter 11 ft

Bypass Ratio 55.12

Engine Weight 1750 lbs
Overall Efficiency 17 percent

Structural Factor 1.00

Number of Wings 1
Number of Fuselages 1

Limiting Airspeed 450 kts
Wing Ultimate g Load 6.00 g
Wing Taper 0.0
Wing Thickness at Root 0.8 ft

Tail / Canard Factor 0.3

Number of Nacelles 1.5
Length 26.5 ft
Diameter 2 ft
Fullness 0.2

Fuselage Diameter 3.75 ft
Fuselage Fullness 0.35

Pressurized Volume 0 percent
Cargo Decks 0

Cleanness 77 percent
Unstreamlined section 1.1 sq ft

User equipment 25 lbs