WesWorld

OK so I got to thinking it might be handy to have a CV to serve with my Battle Group. New being out of the question for the moment, I had a brain storm. with the 2 new BBs there will be very little reason to keep Huascar around so why not see how it would function as a CV.

Opinions are welcomed (advice to as I proly messed up the conversion somehow)

as a BB
Huascar, Peruvian (ex-Indian, ex-SAE) Battleship laid down 1908 (Engine 1931)

Displacement:
20,281 t light; 21,477 t standard; 23,637 t normal; 25,365 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
552.44 ft / 547.90 ft x 83.66 ft (Bulges 91.86 ft) x 27.62 ft (normal load)
168.38 m / 167.00 m x 25.50 m (Bulges 28.00 m) x 8.42 m

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1926 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread
12 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns (6x2 guns), 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,391 lbs / 3,806 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: 5.91" / 150 mm 224.61 ft / 68.46 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.36" / 60 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 25.98 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.8" / 300 mm 9.84" / 250 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 51,351 shp / 38,308 Kw = 23.90 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,889 tons

Complement:
953 - 1,239

Cost:
£1.806 million / $7.224 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,049 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 9,781 tons, 41.4 %
- Belts: 3,446 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 734 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 2,475 tons, 10.5 %
- Armour Deck: 2,916 tons, 12.3 %
- Conning Tower: 210 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,536 tons, 6.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,856 tons, 33.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,356 tons, 14.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 60 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,195 lbs / 16,418 Kg = 41.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 18.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.75 ft / 7.85 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.4 %
Waterplane Area: 33,369 Square feet or 3,100 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 163 lbs/sq ft or 796 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.41
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

60 tons reserved for flag brdge and staff accommodations.
__________________________________________________________________________

as a CV

Huascar, Peruvian (ex-Indian, ex-SAE) CV (Ex Battleship Conversion) laid down 1908 (Engine 1931)

Displacement:
20,764 t light; 21,477 t standard; 23,637 t normal; 25,365 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
547.90 ft / 547.90 ft x 83.66 ft (Bulges 91.86 ft) x 27.62 ft (normal load)
167.00 m / 167.00 m x 25.50 m (Bulges 28.00 m) x 8.42 m

Armament:
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (4x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns in single mounts, 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
40 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,270 lbs / 576 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.6" / 320 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: 5.90" / 150 mm 224.62 ft / 68.46 m 10.99 ft / 3.35 m
Upper: 7.87" / 200 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
2.36" / 60 mm 323.26 ft / 98.53 m 25.98 ft / 7.92 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 51,354 shp / 38,310 Kw = 23.90 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,889 tons

Complement:
953 - 1,239

Cost:
£1.075 million / $4.300 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 159 tons, 0.7 %
Armour: 7,365 tons, 31.2 %
- Belts: 3,449 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 733 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 59 tons, 0.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,914 tons, 12.3 %
- Conning Tower: 210 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,536 tons, 6.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,605 tons, 23.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,873 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 6,100 tons, 25.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,722 lbs / 16,657 Kg = 587.6 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.96 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.40 ft / 8.05 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 26.40 ft / 8.05 m (16.40 ft / 5.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 18.50 ft / 5.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.4 %
Waterplane Area: 33,372 Square feet or 3,100 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 561 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.32
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

6100 tons misc. Weight
3600 tons 60 aircraft airwing (fits by both weight and space under the rules)
2500 tons open for advice

Rebuilding Huascar as a carrier is kind of an interesting idea, but I would think the short length and the low speed would make it problematic as anything other than a training carrier (which don't normally need 60 aircraft plus lots of armor plate).

My question to Peru would be WHY would Peru want or need a carrier? I would think most all of Peru's forces would be devoted to the defence of Peru, while carriers are more about projecting power. Certainly some anti-shipping aircraft should be purchased, but MY line of though would be that they ought to land-based (barring some AEGIS requirement that everyone provide a carrier or something like that). Huascar is certainly not as capable as the newer vessels, but she can still serve as a second-line ship and as a training vessel.

Quoted

with the 2 new BBs there will be very little reason to keep Huascar around so why not see how it would function as a CV.

Pretty much because its old and small. Similar to HMS Eagle but worse.

You'd be far better off buying a new ship of around 13000tons that could carry 40 aircraft and has 20-30years of life instead of this which would realistically have a similar airgroup and maybe 10 years left on the hull.

Buy Italian instead!

We discussed Peruvian carrier aspirations before and nearly to threadlock.

Chile's already committed to build the Libertad, with the possibility of being followed by a pair of 36/48-plane CVLs if I have justification for them at that time.





I think any carrier conversion of Huascar would be... how can I put this nicely... a waste of time. The carrier conversion rules would require at least 50% of light tonnage to go to a conversion, possibly as high as 75% depending upon what you need to remove. That'd cost Peru 10,382 tons at the very least; possibly as high as 15,573 tons, and you've still got a tired old battleship hull underneath it all, poking along at 23 knots.

If I were Peru, I'd do as RA suggested and build something small but new, and use it as a training carrier. The only good reason I'd see to convert Huascar is if you needed a carrier now Now NOW NAOW, which I don't feel is the case.

While I'm not convinced that Peru needs a CV at this point I do agree, converting Huscar would be a waste of resources. If I were to spend 15,000 tons for a CV I'd want it to have the best qualitys possible.

A 15,000 ton trade protection cruiser that will last 20/25 years makes more sence than spending 15,000 tons on a hull that at best has 10 years of life on it.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
While I'm not convinced that Peru needs a CV at this point I do agree, converting Huscar would be a waste of resources. If I were to spend 15,000 tons for a CV I'd want it to have the best qualitys possible.

A 15,000 ton trade protection cruiser that will last 20/25 years makes more sence than spending 15,000 tons on a hull that at best has 10 years of life on it.

well that is why I posted it wasnt sure it would be worth messing with. basicly the hull is garbage now. Not fast enough to operate with the fleet, not armed enough to operate with the fleet. looks like she may be headed to the breakers

She makes for a good coastal defence ship and she's recently recived a refit so I think scrapping her would be un-economical, unless you can sell her to another nation.

Huascar got a 50% rebuild in 1931 or so, so she'll be good for a few years yet. Sure, she's not the fastest thing on the seas, but there aren't many cruisers that will want to tango with her 12" main battery.

Agreed. She's still got enough firepower and armour to drive off one of Chile's armoured cruisers or battlecruisers, and she can beat Columbia's four predreadnoughts or the newly-acquired Columbian battlecruisers. In fact, there are still only two ships amongst her neighbors that can solidly best her: Chile's Latorre and Cochrane. Columbia's Independiente and Chile's Amirante Gideon are good matches but not, IMHO, shoo-ins to be able to defeat Huascar; Huascar ca also outrun both of them.

In their present state the Rio's wouldn't be a match for Colombia's early predreads let alone Huscar, they are heavily battle damaged. Ditto for Independiente (ex-Minas Gerais) currently rated at 70%.

Currently the only deterant Colombia has for the Peruvian battleships is the Atlantean fleet stationed at Papeete and Buenaventura and its own fleet of smaller ships.

Well Peru disnt want to fight any of the mentiond Nations atm (realy we dont seriously we just executed a Dictator here come on) but if forced to fight we will account as well as possible for ourselves (even if we have to send the dinosaur out alone to smash predreads)

Chile doesn't want to fight Peru, either; but political realities demand that the military have the tools necessary to fight them if necessary.

Ditto for Colombia. Having to potentially face 5 capital ships with just 2 VERY old predreads and 2 AC's has led to the purchase of two additional predreads, two battlecruisers and 1 dreadnought. At any rate the later 3 are in disrepair.

In peace prepare for war while in war prepare for peace. Colombia at the moment is fairly confident that peace can be maintained through vigilance.

If you don't want the ship, Mexico will be glad to take it out of your hands...

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
If you don't want the ship, Mexico will be glad to take it out of your hands...

Mexico cant have the ship they are shooting people in Lima, and they didnt pay the assanation fee in advance.

Quoted

Originally posted by Tanthalas
Well Peru disnt want to fight any of the mentiond Nations atm (realy we dont seriously we just executed a Dictator here come on) but if forced to fight we will account as well as possible for ourselves (even if we have to send the dinosaur out alone to smash predreads)

Reassign her to training duties, without modifing her, and let her live out her days training the next generation of Peru's seamen. That way, she will be available if the sh1t hits the fan!!

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green

Quoted

Originally posted by Tanthalas
Well Peru disnt want to fight any of the mentiond Nations atm (realy we dont seriously we just executed a Dictator here come on) but if forced to fight we will account as well as possible for ourselves (even if we have to send the dinosaur out alone to smash predreads)

Reassign her to training duties, without modifing her, and let her live out her days training the next generation of Peru's seamen. That way, she will be available if the sh1t hits the fan!!

thats more than likley what ill end up doing with her. since she dosnt have a runing mate (I like to run BBs in groups of 2)

You too huh?

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
You too huh?

Habbit I devoloped in Navalisim, since I can build 2 BB at a time they tend to operate as pairs.

As well, in wartime she could be part of a Coastal Defence Squadron, with her, the four older light cruisers, and the 10 older DDs. Thats what im going to do with the old Dreadnought I bought from Italy for Poland.

If you want a carrier, I'd talk it over with your AEGIS buddies. First though, I'd look into having one of the AEGIS nations perhaps having Peruvian pilots train off their carriers so you have at least some naval aviation experience. Then I'd build something like the Giovanni Cabot so Peru can actually train pilots of her own, with her AEGIS partners assistance. Then, I'd look into either buying one of the older AEGIS carriers, or building a smaller one, like the Walcheren or even the Italian cruiser conversions. At least that will be the way im going to go about getting a carrier for Brazil (sound alright everyone?)

IMO, it would be strategically sensible for AEGIS to fund a Peruvian carrier, which with a smaller Iberian carrier could counter Chile's fleet in the Pacific, but thats JMHO. As well, if SATSUMA vs. TROTW (the rest of the world due to the alliance systems) ever comes about, (which only one of my countries could even remotely potentially be involved in ) then the Peruvian carrier could take part in sending the SATSUMA fleet to the bottom of the ocean .