WesWorld

Two versions of a refit that would see the A class convert to ocean going escorts. Pictures pending.

Version 1

A-D class, Atlantis Destroyer laid down 1917

Displacement:
1,069 t light; 1,136 t standard; 1,379 t normal; 1,574 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
330.63 ft / 325.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
100.78 m / 99.06 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
4 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.33lbs / 30.09kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.93lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 279 lbs / 127 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 shp / 6,714 Kw = 23.64 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons

Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.205 million / $0.821 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 22 tons, 1.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 330 tons, 23.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 657 tons, 47.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 22.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1,945 lbs / 882 Kg = 29.3 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 14.12 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 100.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,493 Square feet or 603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 247 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.86
- Longitudinal: 3.15
- Overall: 0.98
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

14 tons for 56 depth charges
9 tons for sonar
2 tons for anti sub equipment

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Version 2

A-D class, Atlantis Destroyer laid down 1917

Displacement:
1,075 t light; 1,136 t standard; 1,379 t normal; 1,574 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
330.63 ft / 325.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
100.78 m / 99.06 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
6 - 3.95" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 30.81lbs / 13.98kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.57" / 39.9 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.93lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1917 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1917 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 88 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,000 shp / 6,714 Kw = 23.64 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons

Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.190 million / $0.758 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 17 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 330 tons, 23.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 678 tons, 49.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 304 tons, 22.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 1.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,171 lbs / 985 Kg = 70.4 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 14.12 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,493 Square feet or 603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 154 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 52 lbs/sq ft or 255 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 3.40
- Overall: 1.15
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

14 tons for 56 depth charges
9 tons for sonar
2 tons for anti sub equipment

50 veiws and no input? Help me out here guys!

We are waiting for pictures since I can't figure out what or how you did that. I mean replacing four single mount with three twin mounts of a smaller caliber and removing one secondary mount which I can't tell were it was placed (three side mounts, two superimosed, twins, evenly spaced?)

So we are waiting to be less confused first. Plus the title suggests this is "a" class refit revisited...without giving the class or ship type. I figured it out, but not at first glance.

Just saying something to make you happy, although with a lack of pictures...
I'd go for the version 1 with 8500 shp engines in order to get the hull strength above 1. Not sure how much lower you want to go with the speed, but if you can get a bit more hull strength free by lowering the speed a bit more, add it to the miscellaneous weights.

Picture
Orriginal at top, 5.1" version is in the middle

Well first comment is that both versions of this ship's SS don't have the right number of 40mm guns listed (4 verses 8 and 6 verses 10). Ulnless some of those are 20mm guns.

Second comment is, what do you expect these to be fighting against? Something that needs a 130mm punch, something that needs rapid fire 100mm action, or airplanes? If airplanes you need to pick what you want more, 20-40mm cannons, or 100mm cannons.

Now I see what the confusion is about, the 40mm are supposed to be on the centerline. Also the 20mm should be quads in the pictures.

The ships are meant to be ocean going escorts, to engage aircraft and subs.

Revised SS files

5.1" version

A-D class, Atlantis Destroyer laid down 1917

Displacement:
1,069 t light; 1,136 t standard; 1,379 t normal; 1,574 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
330.63 ft / 325.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
100.78 m / 99.06 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
4 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 66.33lbs / 30.09kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
6 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 279 lbs / 127 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,500 shp / 6,341 Kw = 23.29 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons

Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.201 million / $0.803 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 22 tons, 1.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 17 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 312 tons, 22.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 666 tons, 48.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 311 tons, 22.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,045 lbs / 928 Kg = 30.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.26
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 14.12 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,493 Square feet or 603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 144 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 250 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

14 tons for 56 depth charges
9 tons for sonar
4 tons for anti sub equipment
8 tons for future growth


------------------------------------------------------------

3.95" version

A-D class, Atlantis Destroyer laid down 1917

Displacement:
1,069 t light; 1,136 t standard; 1,379 t normal; 1,574 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
330.63 ft / 325.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
100.78 m / 99.06 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
6 - 3.95" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 30.81lbs / 13.98kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 195 lbs / 88 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.00" / 25 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,500 shp / 6,341 Kw = 23.29 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 437 tons

Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.185 million / $0.738 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 24 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 17 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 312 tons, 22.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 681 tons, 49.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 310 tons, 22.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 35 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,228 lbs / 1,011 Kg = 72.3 x 4.0 " / 100 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.422
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (40 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 14.12 ft / 4.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.7 %
Waterplane Area: 6,493 Square feet or 603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 158 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 52 lbs/sq ft or 256 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 3.42
- Overall: 1.16
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

14 tons for 56 depth charges
9 tons for sonar
4 tons for anti sub equipment
8 tons for future growth

Well, my suggestion would be to use the Second Version, but add a little more fuel for extra range with the space you have now. The 100mm should be enough to engage surfaced submarines and would be effective against aircraft as well. The 130mm might be effective against planes as well, but the 100mm might (might) have a higher rate of fire with a heavy enough shell to down current model aircraft, and those in the prototype stage.

The reason I considered the 130mm was the chance of running into a raiding CL but I still have plenty of 5.5" gunned cruisers to tackle that problem.

As you say the 3.95" version would likely enjoy a better rate of fire and overall has a larger broadside weight as well.

Bunkerage has already been increased from 181 tons to 437 tons by simply increasing the cruising speed.

I'd go with the 100mm version as it would be the more useful against aircraft and six 100mm will see off most smaller surface threats.

Looks like the 3.95" version is the way to go. I might up the bunkerage abit.