WesWorld

RAM had previously announced a rebuild of the Zeven Provincen class BCs. He fought for the appropriate clauses in the Clieto re-write, so I've made the changes I believe he was intending.

Now I would love to upgun to 360mm, but smaller bores are the Dutch way and there was a rather extensive discussion regarding fitting the 345mm guns on these barbettes to start with. While there is a 500ts increase in disp. the Dutch 'declared' tonnages give >5,000 to go. This would leave 4,000 to do something with the Ijselijk class or thier replacements.

Rebuilt vessel first, original second. I'm happy to hear alternative suggestions.

To sum up :
RAM's planned modifications:
-Reshaping of the bow and raising of the freeboard
-Changing main battery from 8x310mm guns to 6x345mm guns (same guns as in the De Ruyter class)
-Deleting center main turret
-Deleting all the casemated guns
-Deleting all the third QF 88mm battery
-Addition of 16 DP 100mm guns as new secondary battery
-revision of light AAA battery
-Deleting the upper belt
-increasing of deck armor up to 135mm
-increase of turret face armor to 395mm
-increase of CT armor to 85mm
-addition of hangar, cranes and catapult for floatplanes
-increase of speed to 30.4 knots
-change of trimming to improve steadiness and gunnery
-Extensive revision of AAA light guns

===========As Rebuilt==============
Zeven Provincien, Dutch Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1930)

Displacement:
26,347 t light; 27,620 t standard; 29,394 t normal; 30,813 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
704.26 ft / 688.98 ft x 90.22 ft x 29.04 ft (normal load)
214.66 m / 210.00 m x 27.50 m x 8.85 m

Armament:
6 - 13.58" / 345 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,252.93lbs / 568.32kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,057 lbs / 3,655 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 447.83 ft / 136.50 m 27.13 ft / 8.27 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.6" / 395 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -
4th: 0.04" / 1 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 3.35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 134,597 shp / 100,409 Kw = 30.40 kts
Range 11,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,194 tons

Complement:
1,122 - 1,459

Cost:
£3.402 million / $13.610 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,007 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 11,063 tons, 37.6 %
- Belts: 4,291 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 708 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,649 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4,346 tons, 14.8 %
- Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 4,079 tons, 13.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,073 tons, 34.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,047 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,441 lbs / 18,344 Kg = 32.3 x 13.6 " / 345 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 20.97 ft / 6.39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.7 %
Waterplane Area: 44,204 Square feet or 4,107 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 158 lbs/sq ft or 773 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.28
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

===================Original==================
Displacement:
25.768 t light; 27.109 t standard; 29.394 t normal; 31.104 t full load
Loading submergence 1.219 tons/feet

Dimensions:
688,98 ft x 90,22 ft x 29,04 ft (normal load)
210,00 m x 27,50 m x 8,85 m

Armament:
8 - 12,20" / 310 mm guns (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
Aft turrets separated by engine room
14 - 6,10" / 155 mm guns
Secondary guns mounted low & subject to being washed down in a seaway
8 - 3,46" / 88 mm AA guns
5 - 1,57" / 40 mm guns
Weight of broadside 9.039 lbs / 4.100 kg
2 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 14,17" / 360 mm, upper belt 8,86" / 225 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 95 % of normal area
Main turrets 14,17" / 360 mm, 2nd casemates 5,91" / 150 mm
AA gun shields 0,47" / 12 mm
Armour deck 3,15" / 80 mm, Conning tower 1,97" / 50 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 1,57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 100.422 shp / 74.915 Kw = 28,25 kts
Range 16.650nm at 10,00 kts

Complement:
1.122 - 1.459

Cost:
£3,467 million / $13,867 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.130 tons, 3,8 %
Armour: 10.593 tons, 36,0 %
Belts: 4.175 tons, 14,2 %, Armament: 3.135 tons, 10,7 %, Armour Deck: 2.485 tons, 8,5 %
Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0,1 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 758 tons, 2,6 %
Machinery: 3.804 tons, 12,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.191 tons, 34,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.626 tons, 12,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0,2 %

Metacentric height 4,7

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,05
Shellfire needed to sink: 28.432 lbs / 12.897 Kg = 31,3 x 12,2 " / 310 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 3,9
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 55 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,47
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,01

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,570
Sharpness coefficient: 0,39
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 6,83
'Natural speed' for length: 26,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim: 54
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 94,4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 137,8 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 108 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,98
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 165 lbs / square foot or 806 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,10
(for 19,03 ft / 5,80 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 0,24 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00


================l======================

I'm not sure that it is actually worth doing. You get a second-rate ship for about 20,000tons. Could just build a new ship that completes in 1935.

Have to agree with RA on this one, I'm not sure it's worth it. The six-gun main battery is marginal, and while the armor is solid, the ship's too big to be a cruiser and too small to play with battleships

I'm not to keen on the entire concept either. However, since RAM had rather made a point of the proposed reconstruction- to the extent of specifying that the Utrecht's shakedown cruise would be to DEI so that the BCs could be recalled, and that government is still in power for another game year, well -for storyline reasons I *should* proceed on that course.

I'd rather worry about replacing the 1909 Ijselijk class first and how to wring 4 worthy ships out of 102,000 tons standard.

I think the Dutch were trying to show a point of the treaty. The spirit of the treaty from the Dutch point of view was that their should be less ship construction. However some points of the treaty made it nearly impossible to reconstruct an existing warship to keep pace with the few newer warships being produced. The Dutch were calling the treaty out on these points with their reconstruction project it would seem. Better to rebuild an existing ship than build a new one seems to have been the point in expressing the "spirit of the treaty".

As an independent "expert" (ie, wearing my ship reviewer hat), I'm simply saying that the ship does not, in the end, appear to be worth the cost to upgrade her. IMO, of course. What the Dutch government chooses to do is, of course, the province of that government.

However, if the plan is to convert her, I'd see what affect going to the mentioned 36cm guns would be on the design. At least then you'd have a bigger stick to whack at potential foes with..... even if you only have 6 guns to whack with.

Well this has raised some interesting questions.

First- to what extent am I obliged to follow my predecessor's announced plans and general approach? I was trying to implement what had been announced to date, while looking for ideas of alternate variations -like the 36cm guns. This is further complicated in that all this occurs in what is now 'backstory' of 1928-1930 as I try to bring the Netherlands up to date. RAM set the next elections for 1931, so the govenment and policies should be the same.

So to date I've built the Z53s, O-1, K17s, started carriers (admittedly modified) and rebuilt the Z25s mostly as previously announced.

From my reading of RAM's threads, he announced a reconstruction of the Zeven Provincen, only to run afoul of the no caliber upgrade issue. He then fought for, and won that point in the revised Clieto treaty of Q4/29 (don't have everything memorized yet ? As indicated, he had planned to call the Zeven Provincen home in mid1929 for the rebuild. They come home Q2, the govt argues for and wins the gun clause in Q4, and then in Q1 1930 the very same govt decides to scrap the idea? I know they are politicians, but....

So.. my presumption is I am bound to do something regarding rebuilding the Zeven Provincen. Am I off base?.

Second: The viability of the design- after folks brought this up, I went and looked at the Indian, Philippine and Japanese designs for comparison. The public IJN designs are formidable, with top speed of 28kts. The Indian vessels also are in that range. Only IJN Okayama sports more than 36cm, with the Indian at 35cm. RAM’s proposed rebuild results in a ship lighter armed, comparably armored and 2.4 knots faster than the esteemed vessels of the SATSUMA alliance.

Third : I liked the suggestion of 36cm guns. I tried two versions. First is a simple reconstruction, the second is with bulges fitted.

===============36cm/29.5kt RAM===============
Zeven Provincien, Dutch Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1930)

Displacement:
26,443 t light; 27,620 t standard; 29,394 t normal; 30,813 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
704.26 ft / 688.98 ft x 90.22 ft x 29.04 ft (normal load)
214.66 m / 210.00 m x 27.50 m x 8.85 m

Armament:
6 - 14.17" / 360 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,565.28lbs / 710.00kg shells, 1919 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x6 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 9,931 lbs / 4,505 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 105

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.2" / 360 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 447.83 ft / 136.50 m 27.13 ft / 8.27 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.6" / 395 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -
4th: 0.04" / 1 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 3.35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 119,256 shp / 88,965 Kw = 29.50 kts
Range 11,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,194 tons

Complement:
1,122 - 1,459

Cost:
£3.469 million / $13.876 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,135 tons, 3.9 %
Armour: 11,074 tons, 37.7 %
- Belts: 4,291 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 708 tons, 2.4 %
- Armament: 1,660 tons, 5.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4,346 tons, 14.8 %
- Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 3,614 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,495 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,951 tons, 10.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
40,266 lbs / 18,265 Kg = 28.3 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 6.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.28 ft / 7.40 m (18.18 ft / 5.54 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Stern: 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Average freeboard: 19.76 ft / 6.02 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 136.4 %
Waterplane Area: 44,204 Square feet or 4,107 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 815 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

=======================+1.25m bulge, DeRutyer’s belt, 36cm, ================
Zeven Provincien, Dutch Battlecruiser laid down 1915 (Engine 1930)

Displacement:
27,326 t light; 28,684 t standard; 30,997 t normal; 32,848 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
704.26 ft / 688.98 ft x 90.22 ft (Bulges 95.14 ft) x 29.04 ft (normal load)
214.66 m / 210.00 m x 27.50 m (Bulges 29.00 m) x 8.85 m

Armament:
6 - 14.17" / 360 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,565.28lbs / 710.00kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
16 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (8x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1915 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1915 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1915 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 10 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,397 lbs / 4,716 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 125

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.57" / 40 mm 447.83 ft / 136.50 m 27.13 ft / 8.27 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16.7" / 425 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 11.8" / 300 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.98" / 25 mm
3rd: 0.47" / 12 mm - -
4th: 0.04" / 1 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.31" / 135 mm, Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 116,065 shp / 86,584 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 9,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,164 tons

Complement:
1,167 - 1,518

Cost:
£3.565 million / $14.261 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,193 tons, 3.8 %
Armour: 11,811 tons, 38.1 %
- Belts: 4,529 tons, 14.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 708 tons, 2.3 %
- Armament: 2,186 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 4,346 tons, 14.0 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 3,517 tons, 11.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,729 tons, 34.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,671 tons, 11.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
43,465 lbs / 19,716 Kg = 30.5 x 14.2 " / 360 mm shells or 7.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.570
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.24 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.87 ft / 8.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.18 ft / 7.98 m (18.18 ft / 5.54 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Stern: 18.18 ft / 5.54 m
- Average freeboard: 19.99 ft / 6.09 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.1 %
Waterplane Area: 44,204 Square feet or 4,107 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 168 lbs/sq ft or 820 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I agree that a new ship is the ideal outcome for the Netherlands, but economics may preclude it. Maintaining eight capital units probably isn't easy with fifteen factories.

For what it is, I think the rebuild with 36 cm guns is okay. It's not a world-beater, but it's sufficient to stand up to any Indian or Filipino ships in existence.

However, if you want a "Get out of rebuild free" card, look to the Filipino Revolution, which RAM probably wasn't considering much when he announced the plans. At the least, widespread SATSUMA operations next door to the NEI might have caused the government to delay the call home until a certain period of time after the Revolution ended. It's also possible that any number of groups (business, expatriates in the NEI, navy, public, opposition) found the Revolution alarming enough that they want new ships. If there's enough political pressure, and the government wants to be re-elected, they may change their tune.

How about replacing the Iseljiks with 2x40.000ton ships and only reconstructing 1 of the Zeven Provinciens?

There isn't much point in going for numbers as Satsuma will always have that advantage. Other option is to go for individually superior ships.

Keep 2xUtrecht and 2xDe Ruyter = 140,000tons

Add in the Iseljik replacements at 40.000tons and you have 20.000tons left to play with

Thin the Iseljik replacements down to 35-38kt and you have enough tonnage left for one of these reconstructed ships.

Another option, if you like, on the political front is to have the government collapse over this or that and have to call new elections. A new government comes to power and looks at things with a fresh eye.

A number of good ideas.

1. The Fillipino revolt may indeed argue for keeping the Zeven Provincen in DEI even after the Utrechts show up and until SATSUMA settles down.

2. The 360cm was more than expected by RAM, and guns are superior to 345mm...since the Dutch do not yet have a gun in that size, one needs to be developed both for the Zeven Provincen and potentially future refits of the De Rutyer class.

3. Due to the complexity of the operation, and the uncertain situation, I can probably justify rebuilding them one at a time.
Which will give the one Zeven Provincen RA suggested.

4. I much prefer the idea of replacing the Iselijks with decent vessels and one Zeven Provincen. I was looking at the unpalatable prospect of a pair of 22,000 ton vessels. Due to the treaty the replacements can't be laid until Q1,1931 anyhow. Howeve, I now need to figure out what I'm building in 1931 prior to reconstructing in 1930/1.

5. While tempting to discard the Dutch govt. I think I can wait until the 1931 elections.

Thanks all for helping me wiggle off this hook.