WesWorld

The Kingdom of Greece is in need of new cannons to replace the obsolete that have now. The every single type can be acquire from a different nation. The canons needed are and should accomplish the next characteristics.


Mountain cannon/Howitzer: There is no restriction about this canon except that it is possible the greek army should be allowed to build it under license.


Field cannon: Any file cannot presented should have at least a caliper 100mm and not more than 160 mm.


Mortar: Must be posible to carry it on horse back as it is or disarming it. It is maximum weight is 700 kg and the minimum caliber allowed is of 80.

Quoted from "M_Fredi"

Mountain cannon/Howitzer: There is no restriction about this canon except that it is possible the greek army should be allowed to build it under license.

France offers the Canon de montagne Modele 1945 Schneider, a thoroughly modern, lightweight 105mm mountain gun.

Quoted from "M_Fredi"

Field cannon: Any file cannot presented should have at least a caliper 100mm and not more than 160 mm.

France offers the Obusier de 155 mm Modèle 44.

Quoted from "M_Fredi"

Light mortar: Must be posible to carry it on horse back as it is or disarming it. It is maximum weight is 1.500 kg and the minimum caliber allowed is of 120.

Medium mortar: Must be possible to carry it by truck. The maximum weight allowed is 6.000 kg.

OOC, I'm not sure I follow your terms here.

I'd say a light mortar is something like a 60mm (or potentially even an 81mm) mortar with a weight between 20 to 60 kg. A medium mortar would be a 105mm unit. The weights and calibers suggested imply a weapon of significantly greater size. Can you please clarify?

Bulgaria's Kazanlak Arsenal does offer a range of rather unique "gun-mortar" designs, with the 50mm and 81mm KMP-50 and KMP-81. These are weird hybrid sorts of things. Unusually, they can be loaded either from the muzzle (like a regular mortar) or from the breech (like a small field howitzer).

Of course, there's the gold-standard Brandt 81mm mortar. Anything else is just a poor substitute... :)

Quoted

OOC, I'm not sure I follow your terms here.

I'd say a light mortar is something like a 60mm (or potentially even an 81mm) mortar with a weight between 20 to 60 kg. A medium mortar would be a 105mm unit. The weights and calibers suggested imply a weapon of significantly greater size. Can you please clarify?

Of course. Since the unique distinction that I found between mortars was an infantry mortar and a heavy mortar. Even the definition of light mortar is unclear. For example, Yugoslavia created a mortar that was considered light because it could be parachuted. So the greek army is going to adapt its own sistem. (Which I am ending of elaborate on english to publish it later on the greek encyclopedia).
If this is way too confusing I would gladly edit the post and point end since is not something critic.

Quoted from "M_Fredi"

Quoted

OOC, I'm not sure I follow your terms here.

I'd say a light mortar is something like a 60mm (or potentially even an 81mm) mortar with a weight between 20 to 60 kg. A medium mortar would be a 105mm unit. The weights and calibers suggested imply a weapon of significantly greater size. Can you please clarify?

Of course. Since the unique distinction that I found between mortars was an infantry mortar and a heavy mortar. Even the definition of light mortar is unclear. For example, Yugoslavia created a mortar that was considered light because it could be parachuted. So the greek army is going to adapt its own sistem. (Which I am ending of elaborate on english to publish it later on the greek encyclopedia).

I still don't understand.

When you use the term mortar, I think of this:


But the weights and calibers you listed are nowhere close to this sort of mortar.

For example, the "light mortar" is supposed to have a minimum 120mm size, and can't weigh more than 1500kg. But a 120mm mortar is actually quite large for a mortar (as I noted above), and the weight is drastically less than 1500kg.

These are the specs for what I'd call a light mortar:

Quoted

Mortier de 60mm Mle1935 (Brandt)
Type : Light mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 4 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 60 mm
Barrel length : 725 mm
Weight in action : 19.7 kg
Elevation : 45° - 83°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (11° at 45° elevation, 13.5° at 60° elevation and 20.5° at 75° elevation)
Rate of fire : 20-25 rpm

Maybe I am being way to confiusing. When I think in a mortar I also imaging the same that you but also this or this.
About the medium mortar. A bit of more investigation leadme to decide to eliminate that recuest a reduce the weight on every thing. Some really weir things that I found confused me and now I will edit it.

Okay, the modified spec is less confusing.

France proposes the gold-standard 81mm Brandt:

Quoted from "Brockpaine"

Mortier de 81mm Mle1927/1931 (Brandt)
Type : Medium mortar
Crew : 1 NCO + 5 men (+ 1 driver)
Caliber : 81.4 mm
Barrel length : 1267.5mm
Weight in action : 58.5kg (18.5kg barrel, 18kg bipod, 1.5kg sight, 20.5kg base plate)
Elevation : 45° - 85°
Traverse : depending from the elevation (8° - 12°)
Rate of fire : 20 rpm (up to 30 rpm in intense fire with a trained crew)

Pretty much everyone else in the world either licenses the Brandt M1927 / 1931, or used it as the inspiration for their own mortars. Given its ubiquity, Greece probably already has some...

With regard to the requirement for Mountain cannon/Howitzer, Germany offers the 10.5 cm Gebirgshaubitze 40

With regard to Field cannon:

Germany proposes the 10.5 cm leichte Feldhaubitze 44

while Yugoslavia offers the M40 Field Gun-Howitzer or the M40 75mm Divisional Gun. The divisional gun is a dual purpose artillery/antitank weapon. Both are in service with the Yugoslav army.

With regard to Mortars, Yugoslavia offers the M42 Heavy Mortar

Yugoslavia will also offer two other options in the realm of infantry support weapons, the M48 Recoilless Gun and the M41Antitank Rocket Launcher

The Dutch Royal Armoury can offer:

105mm L42 M1943
This is a modern 105mm/L42 field gun designed by the Royal Armoury as the new primary field gun of the Royal Netherlands Army.
Weight: 4,200 kg (9,300 lb)
Barrel length: 4.4 m (14 ft) L/42
Breech: sliding block
Elevation: -6° to +42°
Traverse: 50°
Rate of fire: 8 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 730 m/s (2,395 ft/s)
Maximum range: 18,100 m (19,800 yards)

105mm L20 M1943
This is an L/20 calibre version of the L42 M1943 which was originally designed as the M1945G for mounting in the GG-45 assault gun. During 1944 a series was built on modified L42 carriages as a lighter gun for use in the DEI. Also supplied to the Marines to replace their 100m Skoda M16/19 pieces. Production was undertaken at the Batavia Arsenal.
Weight (in action): 1490 kg; (travelling): 2510 kg
Barrel length: 2.1m L/20
Breech: sliding block
Elevation: -6° to +45°
Traverse: 50°
Rate of fire: 8 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 453 m/s
Maximum range: 10,200 m

Britain can offer;
Ordnance QF 3.7in Howitzer Mk II
Ddeveloped alongside the Ordnance 3.7in Mortar QF Mk II tank-mounted howitzer from 1940. Fires same ammunition as this type (25lb smoke, HE, HEAT). The carriage is a simple split-trail type, the barrel is unchanged from the 3.7in Mortar Mk II but the breech is from the 25pdr field gun and a new recoil system is fitted.
Calibre: 95mm
Weight of shot: 25lbs
Muzzle velocity: 1,075fps
Armour penetration: 110mm at 500 yards (HEAT only)
Maximum range: 6,600 yards
8 degrees traverse and -5 to 45 degrees elevation.

Ordnance QF 3.7in Howitzer Mk III
An improved and lighter version developed in 1942 for use with Airborne Forces with only six main parts to assemble.

Ordnance ML 3in Mortar No.1 Mk III
A modernised mortar the based on the similar Mk I fires a 10lb HE or smoke bomb to 2,750 yards, weight in action is 126 lbs. Can be mounted on tracked carriers or trucks to give some mobility.

Ordnance ML 3in Mortar No.1 Mk IV
A lightened version developed in 1942 with a new baseplate for use with Airborne forces.

Ordnance ML 2in Mortar No.1 Mk I
A small light mortar for platoon or squad use for illumination and infantry support. The 2.25lb bomb can be fired to 500 yards and the mortar can be carried by one man, features a detachable base plate and weighs 9lbs. It can be fired almost horizontally in emergency situations. The ammunition is loaded into three tubes, each of which holds three bombs and this pack is carried by the second crew man. The Mk.II has a larger baseplate for mounting in a vehicle.

The army of the Kingdom of Greece will adopt the next artillery:


Mortars: This is the most complicated topic. The yugoslavian M42 Heavy Mortar is going to be accepted to provide assistance to the more static units as infantry divisions. While the lighter Mortier de 81mm Mle 1927/1931 (Brandt) is going to be adopted by motorised troops. If possible the greek army would like to ask to the british government for 50 Ordnance ML 2in Mortar No.1 Mk I for experimental purposes with highly mobile units.


Mountain cannon/howitzer: The german 10.5 cm Gebirgshaubitze 40 has been chosen to enter in servise into the greek army.


Field cannon: The greek army is going to adopt the german 10.5 cm leichte Feldhaubitze 44.

Happy to be doing business with you. :thumbsup:

Happy to provide those 50 2in mortars.