WesWorld

Something I'm contemplating. I though I'd see how many quad mounts I could put on 650tons...



RHN T-XX Class, Greek Torpedo Boat laid down 1929

Displacement:
666 t light; 685 t standard; 773 t normal; 843 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
233.09 ft / 230.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 7.80 ft (normal load)
71.05 m / 70.10 m x 8.84 m x 2.38 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1929 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mount
on centreline, 1 raised gun
6 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 44 lbs / 20 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 10,810 shp / 8,064 Kw = 26.50 kts
Range 5,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 159 tons)

Complement:
73 - 95

Cost:
£0.298 million / $1.190 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 332 tons, 43.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 328 tons, 42.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 107 tons, 13.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
566 lbs / 257 Kg = 17.7 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 36 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.520
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.59 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 25
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (45 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 9.00 ft / 2.74 m (18.00 ft / 5.49 m before break)
- Stern: 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): -54.3 %
Waterplane Area: 4,709 Square feet or 438 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 29 lbs/sq ft or 142 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.54
- Longitudinal: 9.99
- Overall: 0.72
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

I'd be a bit concerned about the negative rating for accomodation and working space.

Interesting concept, though.

...this would be a limited-by-Treaty ship; 600t+5% = 630t.

I think two quintuple mounts would free up some deck space but even then thats alot of torpedo's for such a small ship.

Quoted

I'd be a bit concerned about the negative rating for accomodation and working space.

It just says it's cramped not impossible. Who knows, maybe Greek sailors like it cosy.

Quoted

..this would be a limited-by-Treaty ship; 600t+5% = 630t.

650t + 5% is 682.5t

If pushed I think I could shave 2.5tons.

I had two quads or three triples on a faster ship but it is the torpedos that make this a limited ship so I may as well stuff as many on as I can. ; )

Cheers,

650 tons?

Quoted

G. VESSELS NOT SUBJECT TO LIMITATIONS IN NUMBER AND/OR TONNAGE

I.

Subject to any special agreements which may submit them to limitation, the following vessels are exempt from limitation:

(a) Naval surface combatant vessels of 600 tons (610 metric tons) standard displacement and under;

Since it has torpedoes and a speed of 26+ knots that won't matter too much Swamphen, unless dropped to 600 tons or so.

Quoted

(b) Naval surface combatant vessels exceeding 600 tons (610 metric
tons), but not exceeding 2,000 tons (2,032 metric tons) standard
displacement, provided they have none of the following
characteristics:
(1) Mount a gun above 5.1 inch (130 mm) calibre;
(2) Mount more than eight guns above 3 inch (76 mm) calibre;
(3) Are designed or fitted to launch torpedoes;
(4) Are designed for a speed greater than 24 knots.
(5) Are fitted to receive aircraft on board from the air.

The most crowded submarines I've seen here still have accomodation ratings that are at least not negative. I'd expect that a surface vessel this crowded is going to suffer reduced crew performance after just a few hours at sea. But whatever.

So essentually there are no accomidations. The crew sleeps on the deck or on the bridge. If they have any shifts at all they'll be tripping over each other while they work. So effectively this ship can only have a single shift crew. Maximum of 12 hours out and back. After that the entire crew sleeps or is off duty for 12 hours, or moves the crew to a tender. To make the vessel habitable at least would mean she'd have half the crew listed above?

OK, It looks like I'd have to cheat or drop it.

Thanks,

Or you figure out how to back out of the treaty.

Your intro said you wanted to get as many QUAD mounts on the ship as possible, but all the weapons are twin?

Are the 40mm really 2pdr's. There were over/under mountings for the 2pdr AA guns, but I don't know of any similiar over/under installations for the 40mm's

No I was trying for quad torpedo mounts, I figured 4 triples were not going to fit on 230ft of ship. The 2pdr AA is made up after my drawings were criticised for having twin mount AA that looked like HMG.

If I pulled out of the treaty I wouldn't bother with torpedo boats.

Cheers,

The negative rating indicates that the torpedoes overhang the edges of the ship. THe bridge is built on top of the torpedoes and the crew sleep/sit on top of the torpedoes.

I think the real problem with your design the light displacement 666 (the number of the beast)

They might be blowing up Filipino style just because of that number.
:-)

I did a rework,dropped the torps to 2 quad mounts and lengthened the forecastle. It actually became a good seaboat and steady but is still cramped.

RHN T-XX Class, Greek Torpedo Boat laid down 1929

Displacement:
614 t light; 631 t standard; 684 t normal; 726 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
232.81 ft / 230.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 7.80 ft (normal load)
70.96 m / 70.10 m x 8.84 m x 2.38 m

Armament:
1 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1929 Model
Quick firing gun in deck mount
on centreline, 1 raised gun
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 40 lbs / 18 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 9,543 shp / 7,119 Kw = 26.50 kts
Range 3,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 95 tons)

Complement:
66 - 86

Cost:
£0.267 million / $1.068 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 293 tons, 42.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 316 tons, 46.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 69 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
558 lbs / 253 Kg = 17.5 x 4.0 " / 102 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.93 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.74 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 8.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (66 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 7.00 ft / 2.13 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m before break)
- Stern: 7.00 ft / 2.13 m
- Average freeboard: 15.05 ft / 4.59 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 144.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 36.6 %
Waterplane Area: 4,457 Square feet or 414 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 162 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.64
- Longitudinal: 7.21
- Overall: 0.81
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Lose one more ton, and you can build her with no regrets.
until they start getting sunk... ^_^

Quoted

until they start getting sunk... ^_^

Greek ships are under standing orders to remain beyond the blast radius of Phillipino ships. : P

Displacement:
614 t light; 631 t standard; 684 t normal; 726 t full load...

Would that work? ; )

Cheers

Standard displacement of 600 (+30 = 5%) would get you a 630 tons torpedo boat that could be considered an unlimited type vessel. Some nations might question it, but others will ignore it based on the "gentlemen's argeement".