WesWorld

Seeing as I'm way behind on re-doing my SS files, heres the Tyrrhenia class, any inprovements to be made?

Tyrrhenia, Atlantis battleship laid down 1913

Displacement:
31,932 t light; 34,208 t standard; 36,338 t normal; 37,896 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
665.24 ft / 665.00 ft x 94.00 ft (Bulges 102.00 ft) x 30.00 ft (normal load)
202.77 m / 202.69 m x 28.65 m (Bulges 31.09 m) x 9.14 m

Armament:
12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised guns - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18,277 lbs / 8,290 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
35.00 ft / 10.67 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.25" / 32 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 28.00 ft / 8.53 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 49,847 shp / 37,186 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 8,400nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 3,833 tons)

Complement:
1,315 - 1,710

Cost:
£3.611 million / $14.444 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,285 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 11,765 tons, 32.4 %
- Belts: 4,267 tons, 11.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 544 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 3,268 tons, 9.0 %
- Armour Deck: 3,401 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Tower: 285 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,953 tons, 5.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,729 tons, 43.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,406 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
42,514 lbs / 19,284 Kg = 31.0 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.1 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.625
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.79 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m (26.50 ft / 8.08 m aft of break)
- Mid (68 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.18 ft / 7.06 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158.2 %
Waterplane Area: 45,959 Square feet or 4,270 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 230 lbs/sq ft or 1,124 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.12
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.18
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Looks pretty good to me...

I guess I'll have to expidite the picture and see if it matches the SS file discription.

There's not another pre-WWI BB I'd send against her. Good job!

This is 1913. This ship is 34,000t.

QE or R-class ships from the same time (or later) were 28,500t.

She is far too big. and 4" deck armour???

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
This is 1913. This ship is 34,000t.

QE or R-class ships from the same time (or later) were 28,500t.

She is far too big. and 4" deck armour???

Good point.

Quoted

She is far too big. and 4" deck armour???

I think this ship is clearly inspired in the american standards, the New Mexico (32000t), Pennsilvania (31400t), Tennesse (32300t) and Nevada classes (27500t), and 34000t and 4in deck armor was not out of place for a ship like these.

These BBs were usually bigger and more armoured than their european counterparts, so I´d say she´s big, but not out of place in 1913.

Good answer. She´s still on the edge but nothing to tip things off balance....

Quoted

I think this ship is clearly inspired in the american standards, the New Mexico (32000t), Pennsilvania (31400t), Tennesse (32300t) and Nevada classes (27500t), and 34000t and 4in deck armor was not out of place for a ship like these.

These BBs were usually bigger and more armoured than their european counterparts, so I´d say she´s big, but not out of place in 1913.

The USN ships were big because they needed the range to cross the pacific. Atlantis doesn't need anywhere near this range to get to the carribean or africa. She is also faster than the battleline speed of 20-21knts for no particular reason.

Plus she has excellent seakeeping and extra hull strength. it should be fairly easy to trim her down quite a lot.

Shes half a knot faster than the rest of the Atlantian battle line, and your right she could be trimed down, but I'm going by past springsharp data, to which there was no complaint about her size. I'm not about to resize ships already designed lest I get complaints.

Atlantis dosn't have the Panama canal restrictions nor does it have quad 15" turrets in 1921.

Gravina is correct in his comparisen to the standards, given the numerical superiority of both the UK and U.S. battle fleets, the design would have to be more robust to compinsate for the lack of numbers.

Seeing as somehow I've lost all me SS files (again) I have to redesign everything! Hows this for a smaller design?

Tyrrhenia, Atlantis battleship laid down 1913

Displacement:
30,576 t light; 32,296 t standard; 33,914 t normal; 35,072 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
660.49 ft / 660.00 ft x 92.00 ft (Bulges 102.00 ft) x 29.00 ft (normal load)
201.32 m / 201.17 m x 28.04 m (Bulges 31.09 m) x 8.84 m

Armament:
12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,181 lbs / 5,525 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
30.00 ft / 9.14 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.25" / 32 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47,742 shp / 35,616 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,912 tons)

Complement:
1,249 - 1,624

Cost:
£2.848 million / $11.394 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,523 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 10,605 tons, 31.3 %
- Belts: 4,251 tons, 12.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 524 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 2,719 tons, 8.0 %
- Armour Deck: 2,838 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 272 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,871 tons, 5.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,578 tons, 48.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,338 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,646 lbs / 23,426 Kg = 59.8 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 7.5 ft / 2.3 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.608
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (68 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.30 ft / 7.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.1 %
Waterplane Area: 43,823 Square feet or 4,071 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 251 lbs/sq ft or 1,225 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.39
- Longitudinal: 2.22
- Overall: 1.46
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Rather American with triples early. Save that none are superfiring....so more Russian in a way?

Not a bad thing, but it limits your fire arcs.

crap, thanks for the catch, hows this!

Tyrrhenia, Atlantis battleship laid down 1913

Displacement:
30,576 t light; 32,296 t standard; 33,914 t normal; 35,072 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
660.49 ft / 660.00 ft x 92.00 ft (Bulges 102.00 ft) x 29.00 ft (normal load)
201.32 m / 201.17 m x 28.04 m (Bulges 31.09 m) x 8.84 m

Armament:
12 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (4 mounts), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised guns - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 12,181 lbs / 5,525 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
30.00 ft / 9.14 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.25" / 32 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47,742 shp / 35,616 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,912 tons)

Complement:
1,249 - 1,624

Cost:
£2.848 million / $11.394 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,523 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 10,670 tons, 31.5 %
- Belts: 4,251 tons, 12.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 524 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 2,785 tons, 8.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,838 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 272 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,871 tons, 5.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,513 tons, 48.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,338 tons, 9.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
51,156 lbs / 23,204 Kg = 59.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 7.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 7.2 ft / 2.2 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.66

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.608
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (68 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.30 ft / 7.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.1 %
Waterplane Area: 43,823 Square feet or 4,071 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 128 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 250 lbs/sq ft or 1,220 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.37
- Longitudinal: 2.17
- Overall: 1.43
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

305mm guns in 1913? With a 14" belt? Makes her a bit under-gunned.

And a hull strength of over 1.4 is just begging for more guns. If you're determined on 305mm guns, maybe you could one-up on Agincourt by adding another triple turret.

The 1.6 seakeeping represents hull structure tonnage that might be better used for guns. Make her shorter and beamier, and see if that gives you even more hull strength to play with.

Why 12x12" guns, when your previous designs had 12x14" guns?

Just try and bung 12x14" onto a 30,000t hull and see what you get.

Sigh.... see what happens when your in a hurry?

Once again with the 12x14" guns....that I somehow missed.

Tyrrhenia, Atlantis battleship laid down 1913

Displacement:
30,068 t light; 32,296 t standard; 33,914 t normal; 35,072 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
660.49 ft / 660.00 ft x 92.00 ft (Bulges 102.00 ft) x 29.00 ft (normal load)
201.32 m / 201.17 m x 28.04 m (Bulges 31.09 m) x 8.84 m

Armament:
12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised guns - superfiring
16 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 18,277 lbs / 8,290 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 210.00 ft / 64.01 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
30.00 ft / 9.14 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
1.25" / 32 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.50" / 89 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 47,742 shp / 35,616 Kw = 22.50 kts
Range 6,500nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,912 tons)

Complement:
1,249 - 1,624

Cost:
£3.527 million / $14.109 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,285 tons, 6.7 %
Armour: 11,167 tons, 32.9 %
- Belts: 4,251 tons, 12.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 524 tons, 1.5 %
- Armament: 3,283 tons, 9.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,838 tons, 8.4 %
- Conning Tower: 272 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,871 tons, 5.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,746 tons, 43.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,846 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38,001 lbs / 17,237 Kg = 27.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.0 m
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.60

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.608
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.69 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 1.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 27.00 ft / 8.23 m
- Mid (68 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.30 ft / 7.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.1 %
Waterplane Area: 43,823 Square feet or 4,071 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 223 lbs/sq ft or 1,089 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.06
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.12
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Quoted

on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised guns - superfiring

Should be 6 if you have 2 triples superfiring.

Actually it should read "2 raised mounts".

Ah yes, the SS 2.0 learning curve. Took a little bit to figure that one out myself...considering I'd not been using the older one for more than a few weeks.

Looks very American.

Picture wise she also looks very American, with a bit of British styling too.

There are 4 mounts total, with 2 raised, SS2 dosn;t quite correctly state that.

"12 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (4 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1913 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised guns - superfiring"