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1

Wednesday, September 5th 2007, 8:30pm

Houkokusho Taisho 22 Nen 3 Getsu 31 Nichi

Hopefully no errors...


Japan's Naval Developments - Q1/1935

A. Industrial Allocation

27/27 factories producing warship material = 27,000 t. 13,269 tons stockpiled materials available. 1840 tons from Argentina. Total materials available: 42,109 t. 30,294 t are used. 11,815 t materials stockpiled.

0/27 factories are dedicated to producing infrastructure material, = 0x 0.1 = 0.0 points.

B. Infrastructure Development

None.

C. Naval Construction


Kure Navy Yard, Kure (Honshu)
Slip V-1A => BB Okuni receives 2505 tons.
Slip I-1A => idle.
Slip I-1B => idle.
Dock V-1A => BB Inahime receives 2505 tons.

Yokosuka Navy Yard, Yokosuka (Honshu)
Slip V-2A => BB Nene receives 2505 tons.
Slip I-2A => idle.
Slip I-2B => idle.
Dock 0-2A => idle.

Kawasaki Co, Kobe (Honshu)
Slip V-3A => idle.
Slip II-3A => idle.
Slip I-3A => idle.
Dock II-3A => idle.
Free-floating: BC Ginchiyo receives 2340 tons.

Mitsubushi Co, Nagasaki (Kyushu)
Slip V-4A => idle.
Slip II-4A => idle.
Slip I-4A => idle.
Dock II-4A => idle.
Free-floating: BC Nouhime receives 2340 tons.

Fukuoka Navy Yard, Fukuoka (Kyushu)
Slip III-5A => CB Kongo laid down 1/1/1935. Receives 2001 tons.
Slip II-5A => idle.
Slip I-5A => idle.
Dock IV-5A => idle.
Free-floating: CL Naka receives 1380 tons
Free-floating: BC Oichi receives 2340 tons.

Hakodate Navy Yard, Hakodate (Hokkaido)
Slip III-6A => CB Haruna laid down 1/1/1935. Receives 2001 tons.
Slip II-6A => idle.
Slip I-6A => idle.
Free-floating: CL Jintsu receives 1380 tons.

Aomori Navy Yard, Aomori (Honshu)
Slip III-7A => MABdG Independencia receives 1800 tons. Launched 1/8/1935.
Slip I-7A => idle.
Dock I-7A => idle.

Kagoshima Navy Yard, Kagoshima (Kyushu)
Slip III-8A => MABdG Guardabosques receives 1800 tons. Launched 1/8/1935.
Slip I-8A => idle.
Dock I-8A => idle.
Slip 0-8A => idle
Slip 0-8B => idle
Dock 0-8A => idle

Wakayama Navy Yard, Wakayama (Honshu)
Slip III-9A => CB Hiei laid down 1/1/1935. Receives 2001 tons.
Slip I-9A => idle.
Dock I-9A => idle.
Free-floating: CL Atena Gurourii receives 1395 tons.

Tokushima Navy Yard, Tokushima (Shikoku)
Slip III-10A => CB Kirishima laid down 1/1/1935. Receives 2001 tons.
Slip I-10A => idle.
Dock I-10A => idle.

Niigata Navy Yard, Niigata (Honshu)
Slip I-11A => idle.
Slip I-11B => idle.
Dock III-11A => idle.

Niihama Navy Yard, Niihama (Shikoku)
Slip I-12A => idle.
Slip I-12B => idle.
Dock III-12A => idle.

D. Transactions
1840t received from Argentina.

E. Other Notes
None.

New units laid down this quarter:
CB Kongo, Haruna, Hiei and Kirishima (Kongo class) each requiring 17,999 tons and 27 months.

Repairs.
None

Refits
None

F. Updated Order of Battle, 3/31/35

Note: X(Y)+Z = completed (under repair/refit) + under construction

Limited warships:
Battleships: 9(0)+3
Battlecruisers: 0(0)+3
Aircraft Carriers: 6(0)+0
Large Cruisers: 0(0)+4
Heavy Cruisers: 9(0)+0
Light Cruisers: 38(0)+3
Destroyer Leader: 18(0)+0
Destroyers class 1: 15(0)+0
Destroyers class 2: 74(0)+0
Submarines: 296(0)+0
Coast Defense Vessels: 12(0)+0
Training carrier: 1(0)+0
Training Cruisers: 3(0)+0

Non-limited ships
Destroyers class 3: 223(0)+0
Gunboats: 46(0)+0
Minelayers: 27(0)+0
Minesweepers: 18(0)+0
Submarine Chasers class 1: 30(0)+0
Submarine Chasers class 2: 42(0)+0
Corvettes: 30(0)+0
Patrol boats: 111(0)+0
MPV: 9(0)+0
CCB: 10(0)+0
MTB: 115(0)+0

Auxiliaries
Ammunition ships: 3(0)+0
Oilers: 9(0)+0
Cargo ships: 31(0)+0
Transport ships: 16(0)+0
Tenders: 7(0)+0
Repair ships: 5(0)+0
Netlayer and target towing vessel: 4(0)+0
Naval Tugs: 12(0)+0

Special
Exploration ships: 2(0)+0
Museum ships: 4(0)+0

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 5th 2007, 8:31pm)


2

Wednesday, September 5th 2007, 8:31pm

Pacifica's Naval Developments - Q1/1935

A. Industrial Allocation

0/1 factories producing warship material = 0 t. 0 tons stockpiled materials available. 0 t are used, 0 tons materials stockpiled.

1/1 factories are dedicated to producing infrastructure material = 0.1 pts.

B. Infrastructure Development
0.1 points are transferred to COSINE

C. Naval Construction

Agana (Guam)
D1A: idle
D1B: idle
D0: idle

D. Transactions
None

E. Other Notes

New units laid down this quarter:
None

F. Updated Order of Battle, 3/31/35

Note: X(Y)+Z = completed (under repair/refit) + under construction

Armored Cruiser: 1(0)+0
Light Cruiser: 2(0)+0
Destroyers: 3(0)+0
TPB/DDE: 2(0)+0

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 5th 2007, 8:31pm)


3

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 12:19pm

Kongo Base Design, Japan Kongo Class Large Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
17,999 t light; 18,958 t standard; 21,711 t normal; 23,914 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.28 ft / 700.00 ft x 66.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x 27.68 ft (normal load)
219.54 m / 213.36 m x 20.12 m (Bulges 23.16 m) x 8.44 m

Armament:
6 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (3x2 guns), 727.53lbs / 330.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
18 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (6x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (4x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,072 lbs / 2,301 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 430.00 ft / 131.06 m 9.75 ft / 2.97 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.25" / 83 mm, Conning tower: 2.75" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 160,000 shp / 119,360 Kw = 34.99 kts
Range 10,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,957 tons

Complement:
893 - 1,162

Cost:
£9.018 million / $36.074 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 601 tons, 2.8%
Armour: 4,460 tons, 20.5%
- Belts: 1,401 tons, 6.5%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 1,059 tons, 4.9%
- Armour Deck: 1,954 tons, 9.0%
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 4,545 tons, 20.9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,973 tons, 36.7%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,712 tons, 17.1%
Miscellaneous weights: 420 tons, 1.9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,546 lbs / 11,134 Kg = 36.6 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 17.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.516
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.50 ft / 9.91 m
- Forecastle (20%): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Mid (50%): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 22.50 ft / 6.86 m
- Stern: 21.50 ft / 6.55 m
- Average freeboard: 23.23 ft / 7.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 156.0%
Waterplane Area: 32,497 Square feet or 3,019 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 685 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.49
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Rooijen10" (Sep 8th 2007, 12:24pm)


4

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 12:20pm

Hiei Special, Japan Kongo Class Large Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
17,999 t light; 18,836 t standard; 21,579 t normal; 23,774 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.79 ft / 700.00 ft x 66.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x 27.68 ft (normal load)
219.70 m / 213.36 m x 20.12 m (Bulges 23.16 m) x 8.44 m

Armament:
6 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x2 guns), 529.11lbs / 240.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (4x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,885 lbs / 1,762 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 450.00 ft / 137.16 m 9.75 ft / 2.97 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 99% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.15" / 80 mm, Conning tower: 2.75" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 185,000 shp / 138,010 Kw = 36.34 kts
Range 10,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,937 tons

Complement:
889 - 1,157

Cost:
£8.982 million / $35.926 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 474 tons, 2.2%
Armour: 4,144 tons, 19.2%
- Belts: 1,274 tons, 5.9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 936 tons, 4.3%
- Armour Deck: 1,888 tons, 8.7%
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 5,256 tons, 24.4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,775 tons, 36.0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,580 tons, 16.6%
Miscellaneous weights: 350 tons, 1.6%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,733 lbs / 10,765 Kg = 47.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.513
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.34 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 33.45 ft / 10.20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Mid (50%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Stern: 22.45 ft / 6.84 m
- Average freeboard: 24.18 ft / 7.37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.8%
Waterplane Area: 32,400 Square feet or 3,010 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 655 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

5

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 1:25pm

Interesting.

Speed: Awesome.
Armor: Good
Firepower: Good punch, but few guns
Stability: Good
Steadiness: Average
Survivability: Not so good.

And with only six guns in their main battery, only average steadiness means hits might be hard to come by.

Makarovs have 12 main battery guns, are stable gun platforms, and have 30% more flotation.

They won't be refusing action...

You're giving up a lot for all that speed.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Sep 8th 2007, 1:26pm)


6

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 2:03pm

The advantages that the Makarovs have:
- Much bigger
- Sh*tload of fuel (helps seaboat rating a lot)
- Non superfiring main turrets (helps stability a lot and keeps barbette weight down)
- Only 120 rounds per gun.
- Hull more suitable for speed (50 feet longer; helps seaboat rating a lot)
- Less machinery
- Only 140 tons of miscellaneous weights
- Bigger bulges
- More draught (gives overall hull strength a boost)

Both the additional 50 feet and the fuel bunker (which is almost twice as big as the one on the Kongo) should help the seakeeping of the Makarovs a lot so it is much, much easier to boost that design to both "steady gun platform" and "Good seaboat".
I'd love to make it longer, but that would mean that I need either the Type IV dock or the Type V slips and dock and I do have to consider other things that will be constructed on those bigger slips so therefore I was forced to settle for the Type 3 limits of 721 feet for the Kongos. :(

Still, it only takes 3 torpedoes to sink a Makarov, just as it takes only 3 torpedoes to sink a Kongo. :)

Alternatively, I was thinking of the 3x3 10" design I had (and initially posted) but after thinking for a few moments, I decided to go for the 28cm design instead.

7

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 2:25pm

Slips and docks

Yes, I ran into the same problem with Dunkirque, Strasbourg, and St. Cyr. Fitting high speed and good capabilities into a Class 3 slip/dock can be tough.

8

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 2:44pm

Yes. Cry havoc and let SLIP the DOCKS of war...

I could drop the speed somewhat on the 3x3 10 inch design and add a bit of armor and have it tag along with the Tachibana class BCs rather than with the fast carriers...

Kongo Base Design, Japan Kongo Class Large Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
17,999 t light; 18,999 t standard; 21,756 t normal; 23,962 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
720.79 ft / 700.00 ft x 66.00 ft (Bulges 76.00 ft) x 27.68 ft (normal load)
219.70 m / 213.36 m x 20.12 m (Bulges 23.16 m) x 8.44 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 529.11lbs / 240.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns (4x8 guns), 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,472 lbs / 2,482 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.00" / 229 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 9.75 ft / 2.97 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 4.00" / 102 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 3.00" / 76 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
5th: 0.50" / 13 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.75" / 95 mm, Conning tower: 2.75" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 127,356 shp / 95,008 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,963 tons

Complement:
895 - 1,164

Cost:
£8.616 million / $34.465 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 662 tons, 3.0%
Armour: 4,987 tons, 22.9%
- Belts: 1,482 tons, 6.8%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 1,201 tons, 5.5%
- Armour Deck: 2,257 tons, 10.4%
- Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0.2%
Machinery: 3,618 tons, 16.6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,233 tons, 37.8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,757 tons, 17.3%
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.3%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,358 lbs / 12,409 Kg = 54.7 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 18.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.79
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.517
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 28.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 33.45 ft / 10.20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Mid (50%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Quarterdeck (15%): 23.45 ft / 7.15 m
- Stern: 22.45 ft / 6.84 m
- Average freeboard: 24.18 ft / 7.37 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 162.3%
Waterplane Area: 32,530 Square feet or 3,022 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.66
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

9

Saturday, September 8th 2007, 2:57pm

Now that's a cruiser-killer

Speed enough to catch her prey, and firepower/steadiness enough for a quick kill.

10

Sunday, September 9th 2007, 4:52am

Good thing Australia has built only one Heavy Cruiser. These new CAs will have a considerable effect on my plans.

11

Sunday, September 9th 2007, 1:01pm

So you're going to build cruiser killer killers? :)

12

Sunday, September 9th 2007, 2:53pm

Kruiser Killer Killers

That's the idea with Strasbourg and Dunkirque

They're armored against long range fire up to 305mm or so, and can keep one Kruiser Killer busy with 240mm fire while killing another with 340mm.

13

Sunday, September 9th 2007, 3:16pm

Time to create a cruiser killer killer killer...

14

Sunday, September 9th 2007, 7:19pm

Something to match the Oyamas. Hmmm. Build the other two, build them as carriers...build the battleships....build them as hybrids....hmmmm.

15

Monday, September 10th 2007, 3:51am

And the race is on! :D