WesWorld

A little thouts that I have about the sim.


Ok there are some great powers in wesworld.
The United Kingdom is cited as dominat power biggest industry.USA hase one More Capital ship.
Atlantis Russia and the SAE are the other power that when they speak the world lissens.
But that the Sim mechanics.In the game it self there is a slight difrents.
CanisD has the biggest fleet
AdmKuznetsov comands the largest Infrastucture althou its devided in to countres.
RLBH is playing GB thats by it self is a enourmous power.
The largest Infrastructure,on the other hand the power was allocated to Canada and Australia but still its remarkable.
And grouping of players SATSUMA now thats an allayence that can,if it wishes,give headake to any one.
Theres one more power that just emarged...me.
Im qait reacent jointed the sim,Im playing for about 3 mounts,in comparision to player that are here for over 3 years that preaty short.
And yet no one ever bulled any one no gunboat politic, every body came hire to design a fleet of the beging of the last century and are playing there repective powers peacefull and are not trying to boss around anybody.
The treaty descusions(wich I wasnt part of ) are the moust 'hostale' tread on the bourd.I enjoyed reading those treads wery much.By the way it was more civialsed that some United Nations talks of the past.
I returning question will there be a (Wes)World War II is a qaiet but an interesting one ,who will start it and why, if at all? No one knows.Good.

I played other sims similar to this on in its premise.
Those sims were "efimerydy"short timed affeirs with many player come and gone.This sim is the one that I think is the best sim around,and I belive will be a place if time allows the one that I will remember for a long time.

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And yet no one ever bulled any one no gunboat politic, every body came hire to design a fleet of the beging of the last century and are playing there repective powers peacefull and are not trying to boss around anybody

Welllll..... I'll have to admit that the Treaty of Mutual Assistance between Russia and Latvia required a bit of... encouragement... to accomplish. But the pressure was mostly economic.

Here's some of the storyline:

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…76bb3e8cd8949cd


But apart from that little bit of unpleasantness, Russia and France have been profoundly uninterested in shaking things up. France is still recovering from the huge manpower losses of the Great War, and France's energies are fully occupied maintaining a global empire with one of the smaller fleets. Cruisers are especially busy, with maritime security and patrol operations.

Russia on the other hand is more focussed on internal development, which is going quite well. The oil of Baku, Perm, and Sakhalin provide good export income, and industrialization is advancing rapidly, helped by Russian Navy orders of steel, turbines, guns, and armor plate. Work on her internal waterways is advancing, and by 1938 or so, ships will be able to travel between the Black, Caspian, Baltic, and White Seas. Think the NEP with no Civil War first, so instead of taking until 1928 to recover to the general economic level of 1913, it was done by around 1922, so Russian leaders do not feel so much of the "We are 50-100 years behind the West. We must make good that distance in 10 years, or we will be beaten!" pressure. Add in no Anglo-French-Japanese-American intervention, and the "Russian Paranoia" level is nothing near what it was historically.

So, for somewhat different reasons, both France and Russia are satisfied powers in the WesWorld.

Heh, you missed the Filipino-Chilean spat over the Paracels. It came >< this close to war...before the Larger Powers squashed it....and the solution, an Iberian mandate, was likely the least desirable of all possible outcomes to both powers!

(As there was at the time several Filipino ships near Cape Horn as part of an "observer force"...that could have gotten very interesting. As it turned out they afterwards sailed to Lima and, on the orders of the late then-Foreign Minister de Varga sold Peru a coastal battleship to spite the Chileans...creating a mess that Presidente de la Vega is still trying to clean up.)

Quoted

Originally posted by Marek Gutkowski

And yet no one ever bulled any one no gunboat politic, every body came hire to design a fleet of the beging of the last century and are playing there repective powers peacefull and are not trying to boss around anybody.
The treaty descusions(wich I wasnt part of ) are the moust 'hostale' tread on the bourd.I enjoyed reading those treads wery much.By the way it was more civialsed that some United Nations talks of the past.
I returning question will there be a (Wes)World War II is a qaiet but an interesting one ,who will start it and why, if at all? No one knows.Good.

I played other sims similar to this on in its premise.
Those sims were "efimerydy"short timed affeirs with many player come and gone.This sim is the one that I think is the best sim around,and I belive will be a place if time allows the one that I will remember for a long time.

Well for starters we have FAR which was orriginally formed as a defencive alliance vs. the nefarious RRE (Roman Riech Empire, Germany and Italy) orriginally if I'm correct) the AANM was formed for similar reasons.

Without the RRE I suppose the alliances were formed for other reasons and have since shifted their focus.
Ultimately this has led to some unusual yet large groupings.

That being said I agree there should be more incedents of gunboat diplomacy and I'm sure some are already afoot...

Historically, though, gunboat diplomacy was used mostly within your own sphere of influence (the US in Central America, Belgium in the Congo, etc). The WW is rather different from our timeline because there are more, but smaller, spheres of influence and more powers extant. Eeach power can hold it's sphere of influence more tightly.

The alliances also mitigate against gunboat diplomacy, as most of the WW nations are members of one or another alliance (the UK, US, Germany, Poland, Persia, Turkey, Brazil, and Chile being exceptions). The US and the UK don't need to be members of an alliance, Germany and Poland are sheltered a bit by being within Europe and on the borders of an alliance or two (if one alliance pushes them, they could join the other major European alliance), Brazil and Chile are too big to be overawed simply by a gunboat (a fleet of BBs might do it, but then again it might push them to ally with the rest of South America, which is the opposite of what most gunboat diplomats would want).

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
Heh, you missed the Filipino-Chilean spat over the Paracels. It came >< this close to war...

Let us not forget to one true shooting match that Wesworld has seen.....The Andaman Sea Crisis!!!

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Let us not forget to one true shooting match that Wesworld has seen.....The Andaman Sea Crisis!!!

Exactamundo!

Speaking to some of Marek's original points:

Wesworld did come together as a group of people looking to simulate the design of a fleet, as opposed to the usual "who can build the better 1932 German raider" philosophy that often rules the design boards out there. Since it was a design sim before it was a roleplaying entity, we've never gotten round to introducing any rules that would allow a war to happen without the consent of all involved parties. Consequently, the Andaman Sea Crisis, and I gather the planned Paracels hootenanny, were both scripted in advance by the players involved.

So what? Well, I think all of this has attracted a group of people willing to engage in an honest conversation about issues that would affect naval design in the 1920s. We do our best to keep the tone calm and respectful, and we differentiate between ourselves and our in-character personas. So long as we can do this, and still remain interested in what we do, the sim will have legs.

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Well for starters we have FAR which was orriginally formed as a defencive alliance vs. the nefarious RRE (Roman Riech Empire, Germany and Italy) orriginally

We all knew aowwt would do it but...
... the RRE did not exist when FAR was created. It would probably appear in the late 1920 early 1930s (at least that's the impression I got from aowwt) so to state that FAR was created as a defensive alliance against something that won't be around for at least another 5-10 years is just odd. Since RRE would appear after FAR, it's more likely that the RRE would be formed in order to counter FAR rather than FAR being a defensive alliance against the RRE.

Incorrect ,he had the intent to form the RRE anyway and had already moved towards that end.

Either way it still seemed reasonable at the time to form a defencive minded alliance in the wake of the great war.

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Incorrect ,he had the intent to form the RRE anyway

I know that. Didn't I say "We all knew aowwt would do it"

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and had already moved towards that end.

To me, the only indications that he would do just that was him taking control of Germany and Italy and that we all were familiar with his RRE work (could be that I missed something though).

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Either way it still seemed reasonable at the time to form a defencive minded alliance in the wake of the great war.

... and it immediately made the Wesworld a more interesting place.
:-)

A few thoughts;

Great Britain and the Commonwealth is still by far the largest and strongest single power in the world. They have a Navy second to none. They're also ~£500m than historically.

The USA is far weaker than historically and is not a "world power". Their non-involvement in the war means that they lack international clout. Their navy is second to one.

Atlantis and South Africa are Great Powers with each dominating their own part of the world but without quite the worldwide commitment of others. They are very involved in world affairs, especially Atlantis.

Russian Federation should still be the despotic rotten mess that is was historically. Without the sweeping changes of communism there would be no end to serfdom. We have seen no sweeping changes here. I'm assuming that President Kerensky is operating under a soviet(NB. not communist) system like historically. RF should be completely done-in by the war. Its not. GB wiped out £500m of debt to RF because it was non-recoverable against Lenin. This wouldn't have happened here.

Iberia? I really don't know much. How and why Iberia is so strong is anyone's guess.

Japan. Fairly historical, but frighteningly weird.

Nordmark. Somewhere so cold, forested and mountainous isn't good for industrial development but it somehow happened.

Netherlands. Things don't really make sense.

France. Materially poor but economically strong because of our sim rules.

India. Complains about European colonialisation then does the same herself. Perceived as a "voice of reason" but has links to some less stable countries.

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Russian Federation should still be the despotic rotten mess that is was historically. Without the sweeping changes of communism there would be no end to serfdom. We have seen no sweeping changes here. I'm assuming that President Kerensky is operating under a soviet(NB. not communist) system like historically. RF should be completely done-in by the war. Its not. GB wiped out £500m of debt to RF because it was non-recoverable against Lenin. This wouldn't have happened here

Historically, Russia recovered her 1914 income and production levels by about 1928. With no devastating Russian Civil War in the WesWorld, and the lack of ~8 million people killed/starved during that conflict, I figured this level was reached ~1922, as a guess, so WesWorld's Russia is quite a bit stronger economically than the historical USSR. The essential policy of Lenin's NEP has been maintained, but from a higher beginning level and under a more stable international situation, so there has been less pressure for the forced industrialization like the Five Year Plans, or for Collectivisation.

And the war debts, but not the prewar railroad debts were repudiated in 1917, so yes Russian government securities are still treated with caution by conservative investors:

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…f12802cb5034737

"The RosPoezd Finance Division announced today that on 15 March 1926 they would offer a bond issue on the Bourse in the amount of 100,000,000 Rubles in order to raise the capital for the construction of the Henyang to Kunming railroad. The bonds offer an interest rate of 2 1/4% for a term of 30 years. Moody's Analyses of Railroad Investments notes: "While Russian government securities are not yet to be considered for the portfolio of the prudent investor, due to Russia's default on her war debts in 1917, it is notable that, through war and revolution, RosPoedz has never been late on a payment of principle or interest. This bond issue will provide its investors a reliable source of long-term income and a safe harbor for their capital."

Things take time to rebuild and heal. Poland has suddenly appeared grabbing a portion of previously Russian land, some of the best land I must add. I think a program of civil construction could be a good way to reignite the economy. The canal/riverine route from Barents Sea to Black Sea is a good example. The icebreakers for a route to Asia over the top of the world was a good idea, but one I feel is ultimately doomed to failure. I think the risk is too great for investors and I can't see Lloyds going for it. The basic problem is that the area around Severnaya Zemla is permanently surrounded by pack ice, even in September;



and that is in 2004, rather than colder 1930.

s take time to rebuild and heal. Poland has suddenly appeared grabbing a portion of previously Russian land, some of the best land I must add.[/QUOTE]

This is certainly a reason Russia has been strongly a "status quo" power in the WesWorld. And yes, Poland has gained some, if somewhat less than the historical Soviet-Polish border in the 1920s.

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I think a program of civil construction could be a good way to reignite the economy. The canal/riverine route from Barents Sea to Black Sea is a good example.

The Volga-Don Canal is in operation, with oil barges carrying the "black gold" of Baku and Perm to European markets. The White Sea Canal is nearing completion. Next on the list is connecting Lake Onega to the Volga, so Russia's internal waterway system is definitely under development.

A further encouragement to industry has been purchases of guns, turbines, structural steel, and armor plate for Russia's Navy.

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The icebreakers for a route to Asia over the top of the world was a good idea, but one I feel is ultimately doomed to failure. I think the risk is too great for investors and I can't see Lloyds going for it. The basic problem is that the area around Severnaya Zemla is permanently surrounded by pack ice, even in September;

Yes, ice is the big problem, which is why Russia is investing in icebreakers with long ranges. I'll also note my post in the Infrastructure section on the facilities along the Northern Sea Route:

http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?th…b5034737&page=1

The book shows that icebreaker support was critical to developing commerce, but that ships did make the entire voyage in the 1930s, supported by icebreakers about 30% smaller than the present Arctica class. The Rodzhestvenskiy class now under construction will support an even longer season of navigation. As a guess, they will have capabilities approaching the Soviet Arctica class nuclear icebreakers, which now take tourists to the North Pole for a mere $25,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_powered_icebreaker

>: (

Grrrr eece doesn't seem to rate (pounds shoe on table). You underestimate a power that combines goose stepping and uniforms with pom-poms and poofy hats.

Hmm, lets see, USA, Atlantis, SAE, France, Russia, Iberia, Japan blah blah blah... anyone of them ruled the world? No.

: P to our goat-fu*king friends across the Adriatic.

Cheers,

PS. AIGF : )

Don't feel too bad. Wesworld's a big place, and it takes a lot of energy to rant and complain about every nation there. I'm sure there's a special place in the Italian heart for their Greek neighbours.

The question is, which colours do the Greeks use in their war plans vs other nations?

Turkey would acctually be offended if they were not "plan brown", given past Greek rants!

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Turkey would acctually be offended...

Ah, the other goat ffff....[goes off to read the comics in Jylland-Posten] ; )

Maybe Turkey is plan 'white' as all the 'brown' would have been kicked out...

Cheers,

Not so much a rant as a comparison with OTL.