WesWorld

Still thinking on the new scout forces flagship. This is where I'm at;

-diesels for cruising (outer shafts) and turbines for combat (inner shafts)

-modelled on RN Invincible class

The original concept had a twin forward and a quad midships to improve the depth of torpedo protection forward but SS decided that was going to cost structual strength.



RHN B-5 New BB, Greece Battleship laid down 1931

Displacement:
27,856 t light; 29,891 t standard; 31,026 t normal; 31,935 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
701.84 ft / 700.00 ft x 108.00 ft x 27.00 ft (normal load)
213.92 m / 213.36 m x 32.92 m x 8.23 m

Armament:
6 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward
3 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (1x3 guns), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
20 - 5.00" / 127 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.50lbs / 28.35kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 13,600 lbs / 6,169 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 180
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 419.02 ft / 127.72 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.60" / 15 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
2nd: 13.0" / 330 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 8.00" / 203 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.20" / 132 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 98,576 shp / 73,537 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 12.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,044 tons)

Complement:
1,168 - 1,519

Cost:
£12.286 million / $49.146 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,700 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 9,497 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 2,228 tons, 7.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 251 tons, 0.8 %
- Armament: 1,824 tons, 5.9 %
- Armour Deck: 5,194 tons, 16.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,948 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,586 tons, 43.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,170 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
36,145 lbs / 16,395 Kg = 26.3 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.47
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise aft of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.532
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 5.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (33 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.20 ft / 6.16 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.4 %
Waterplane Area: 53,990 Square feet or 5,016 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 961 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.45
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Cheers,

Are you trying to scare the Turks....with her looks?!!!!

Odd.....

Form follows function... so Turks would find her scary anyway.

Cheers,

Are the aircraft cats fixed in-deck cats, or are they just motted from the side plan? Either way, I'd think blast effects on the cats would be a definate problem, especially with that spacious quarterdeck. With all the main guns forward, and no centerline secondaries, I'd put a US style catapult/crane arrangement on the stern, and move the hangar/storage aft of the funnel.

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 419.02 ft / 127.72 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.60" / 15 mm 419.00 ft / 127.71 m 27.00 ft / 8.23 m


Cheers,

Is a 15mm torpedo bulkhead doing really worth it?
Such thin bulkhead would have no effect other then make the ship more cramped, i would not be supprised if you would improve the torpedos survivability if you removed it.

Its definitely different.

I don't see uptakes for the diesels, and you'll have to have more than 1 engine room for them. I'll try and find a diagram but basically you can only group 3 diesels onto 1 shaft at a time. Depending on how much power you want your diesels to transmit it might not matter.

Quoted

- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (19 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (33 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 20.20 ft / 6.16 m

You want the following turret arrangement;

1 turret grouped forwards
1 turret grouped aft
1 turret grouped centre

Which will give you 1 turret forward of the midbreak, 1 behind the midbreak and 1 at the midbreak.

You can also put four diesels together (like a big H) - it just depends on your gearbox. The Germans used such arrangements, IIRC.

Diesel uptakes - good point!

My diagrams of German ships show them grouped in threes. It would depend on the gearbox, but on internal dimensions in this case.

I know I have a book at home with a diagramm showing 4 diesels coupled but I could be mixing up things here with modern MEKO designs (CODAD - combined diesel and diesel most likely)....

See also: http://www.mtu-online.com/de/pr/prelmapr.htm#uebersicht

The aircraft handling facilities seem a bit unusual.
You have an open fantail - so why not launch/recovery from there as opposed to abreast a main battery turret?

Agree on the catapult...unless of course the quartedeck is home to The Secret Weapon. ;-)

Quoted

You want the following turret arrangement;

1 turret grouped forwards
1 turret grouped aft
1 turret grouped centre

What about 'centerline ends/evenly spread' and 'centerline/grouped center'? CE/ES would seem to me to have the same effect as 1 forwards and 1 aft.

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen

What about 'centerline ends/evenly spread' and 'centerline/grouped center'? CE/ES would seem to me to have the same effect as 1 forwards and 1 aft.

Same difference.

Diesels don't need huge exhausts and they are in a wide compartment. I'll have to look at if it should be a long one rather than ship width. There is a small exhaust at the rear of the bridge.

Good points on the main turrets. I'll look into that.

The catapults are flush with the deck and having the aircraft arrangements midships puts it at the centre of movement rather than the stern where there is greater movement from the ship pitching. I figure if you had to launch under combat then the disengaged side one is available.

Italian ships tried this in the 20's and 30's but having the plane infront of the guns was the disadvantage.

Cheers,

One thing I just noticed on the catapults: if those planes are to scale, they're gonna bash a wingtip on the forwards superstructure when they launch...

The wings are spring loaded...thats the top deck you are looking at for the bridge.

Cheers,

Can we give the RHN class ships the nickname of "the Nelsons of wesworld"?

Are you going to mount a tripod mast aft with a crane to hoist the boats?

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval
Diesels don't need huge exhausts [...]

That´s what the Germans thought first too.... and why they had no funnels on the early sketches of the DEUTSCHLAND-class. It turned out they were wrong and a standard sized funnel is indeed necessary.

Spring loaded wings ?!?!?

Diesels still need exhausts, which means ducting to the funnel or a smaller funnel on the secondary conning tower, which will blow fumes into the main conning tower...

The Italian catapult arrangement worked fairly well. Just got to time it so that plane is launched on the crest of a wave. Its nice and out of the way.

With your diesel engines so far forward you are going to have extremely long shafts. Is this really a good idea?

For mixed propulsion why not try this; diesel/electric generators & steam/electric generators, with the electric engines located aft.