WesWorld

I and a few others have occasionally brought up the issue of floating dry docks, but not many people have ever really responded. At present I'm presuming these facilities are not covered in the rules, correct?

That is my take too, though I am aware of earlier discussions. But the "as is" rules set does not cover floating dry docks, so they do not exists (officially).

That's also my thought.

Do we really need them ????

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Originally posted by HoOmAn
That is my take too, though I am aware of earlier discussions. But the "as is" rules set does not cover floating dry docks, so they do not exists (officially).

In that case, do you (and others) think this a topic that perhaps we should look into?

I know from our previous discussions that someone suggested "repairs only, no new construction" which I'd agree with.

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Originally posted by parador
Do we really need them ????

Well, I'd think adding floating drydocks would be a neat addition to the rules, and it would match very well with what'd be available in real life. So... no, we don't need them, I suppose; I'm interested to know if people want them.

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Originally posted by parador
That's also my thought.

Do we really need them ????

Depends on the "we", and what their aims are. I definately see how they'd be useful to the Commonwealth or France, for example. Not as much to the US as Historical (since the US isn't planning to retake the phillipines and such), but it's still nice to move a dock around to where it's needed on occasion.

In framing the question of 'floating' drydocks, it is workwhile to remember that 'floating' drydocks can be of two generic types - those intended for use at an existing navy yard, and those intended to support fleet operations from forward bases.

This would be an example of the first. Conceivably, a smaller drydock built under the existing infrastructure rules could be viewed as a floating yard dock.

This would be an example of the second sort - one of the large sectional docks built by the USN during the Second World War. I suspect that this is the sort of 'floating dock' people have been thinking about. Our current rules do not cover them.

As the pictures associated with the first example will show, a floating 'yard dock' can be towed considerable distances - but it is certainly not intended to accompany a fleet on active operations.

I think the second is more a toy for the big nations, rather than for the small countries.

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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
In framing the question of 'floating' drydocks, it is workwhile to remember that 'floating' drydocks can be of two generic types - those intended for use at an existing navy yard, and those intended to support fleet operations from forward bases.

This would be an example of the first. Conceivably, a smaller drydock built under the existing infrastructure rules could be viewed as a floating yard dock.

This would be an example of the second sort - one of the large sectional docks built by the USN during the Second World War. I suspect that this is the sort of 'floating dock' people have been thinking about. Our current rules do not cover them.

As the pictures associated with the first example will show, a floating 'yard dock' can be towed considerable distances - but it is certainly not intended to accompany a fleet on active operations.

I was actually thinking of both types, more of the first than the second.

The modern-day shipyard of ASMAR Astillero de Talcahuano has, as an example, six floating drydocks and two graving docks, as an example. The docks I'm thinking of would be of the first type Bruce mentioned.

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Originally posted by parador
I think the second is more a toy for the big nations, rather than for the small countries.

Well, I'd agree; it'd be a waste for a small country to invest highly in a vessel like that when their interests likely don't demand it. But it seems rather silly to me to object to something because only "large" countries would be interested in it.

I guess the issue is how to sim it and how to pay for it.

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Originally posted by Hood
I guess the issue is how to sim it and how to pay for it.

Which would be pretty much the heart of the issue.

Just making a wacky off-the-top-of-my-head proposal, perhaps a floating drydock could be priced by IP, costing half the IP of a comparable "land" drydock (graving dock) but only capable of repairing ships or conducting 25% refits. (Never ever never to build a *new* ship.) And perhaps make some restrictions that the floating drydock needs to be, say, anchored in sheltered water, like a lagoon or a protected bay, for the duration of the work? (Though I'd expect this would be an RP issue.)

Example:

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Size Type Length (m) Length (ft) Cost Turnaround time
0 Floating Dry-dock 70m 230ft .5IP 1 week
.5 Floating Dry-dock 95mft 312 .75IP 2 weeks
1 Floating Dry-dock 120m 393ft 1IP 2 weeks
1.5 Floating Dry-dock 145m 476ft 1.25IP 3 weeks
2 Floating Dry-dock 170m 557ft 1.5IP 3 weeks
2.5 Floating Dry-dock 195m 640ft 1.75IP 4 weeks
3 Floating Dry-dock 220m 721ft 2IP 4 weeks
3.5 Floating Dry-dock 245m 804ft 2.25IP 5 weeks
4 Floating Dry-dock 270m 885ft 2.55IP 5 weeks
4.5 Floating Dry-dock 295m 968ft 2.75IP 6 weeks
5 Floating Dry-dock 320m 1049ft 3IP 6 weeks

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Originally posted by Hood
I guess the issue is how to sim it and how to pay for it.

If we pay for floating docks in tonnage rather than IP points then no one will build any more dry docks. Our current infrastructure is massively overpriced compared to historical levels, but this does set off the lack of maintenance required for ships.

If someone wants to spend IP on a floating dock rather than a dry dock, I have no problems with that.

Brocks proposals look good.
Fair prices. I assume bonus points from declaring factories to a project would also benefit these docks as well as land-based ones?

The proposal to pay for them with IP seems reasonable to me.

I like it.

Brocks proposals look fair.

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.... but only capable of repairing ships or conducting 25% refits. (Never ever never to build a *new* ship.) And perhaps make some restrictions that the floating drydock needs to be, say, anchored in sheltered water, like a lagoon or a protected bay, for the duration of the work? (Though I'd expect this would be an RP issue.)

Should also be part of the rules !!! May be .... after shipping the dock to another point, there is a special time to anchor and prepare the dock before the work could start.

We might call them "floating repair docks", just to keep their limitations more in mind.

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Originally posted by parador
Brocks proposals look fair.

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.... but only capable of repairing ships or conducting 25% refits. (Never ever never to build a *new* ship.) And perhaps make some restrictions that the floating drydock needs to be, say, anchored in sheltered water, like a lagoon or a protected bay, for the duration of the work? (Though I'd expect this would be an RP issue.)

Should also be part of the rules !!! May be .... after shipping the dock to another point, there is a special time to anchor and prepare the dock before the work could start.

How much time do you have in mind, how would you suggest it be reported, and how would you suggest it be enforced? Would, for example, it be useful to set it at half of the turnaround time?

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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
We might call them "floating repair docks", just to keep their limitations more in mind.

I like this suggestion.

and scan their factory spreadsheets for the slack to build a couple of these useful little items.

Next question, and IIRC Hrolf brought this up with no definative answer given, can we dismantle existing slips/drydocks if they are surplus to requirement and if so can we use the IP gained to build floating drydocks?

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Originally posted by Brockpaine

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Originally posted by parador
Brocks proposals look fair.

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.... but only capable of repairing ships or conducting 25% refits. (Never ever never to build a *new* ship.) And perhaps make some restrictions that the floating drydock needs to be, say, anchored in sheltered water, like a lagoon or a protected bay, for the duration of the work? (Though I'd expect this would be an RP issue.)

Should also be part of the rules !!! May be .... after shipping the dock to another point, there is a special time to anchor and prepare the dock before the work could start.

How much time do you have in mind, how would you suggest it be reported, and how would you suggest it be enforced? Would, for example, it be useful to set it at half of the turnaround time?.

I'd say, for simplicities sake, call it a quarter. That will cover not just the siting of the dock, but the delivery of necessary supplies and personnel