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1

Friday, December 31st 2010, 10:21pm

Oceanic Sloop

The Irish Naval Service will be replacing the four Dierdre-class fisheries protection vessels with two larger, but more seaworthy and capable "oceanic sloops".

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Dierdre II-class, Irish Oceanic Sloop laid down 1941[/SIZE]

Displacement:
2,406 t light; 2,529 t standard; 3,203 t normal; 3,742 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
413.14 ft / 393.70 ft x 45.93 ft x 13.78 ft (normal load)
125.93 m / 120.00 m x 14.00 m x 4.20 m

Armament:
4 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 201 lbs / 91 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 500

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.77" / 45 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 8.13 ft / 2.48 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.77" / 45 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 11.57 ft / 3.53 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.77" / 45 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,874 shp / 5,128 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 6,250nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,214 tons

Complement:
212 - 276

Cost:
£0.808 million / $3.234 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 371 tons, 11.6 %
- Belts: 155 tons, 4.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 194 tons, 6.1 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 182 tons, 5.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,279 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 797 tons, 24.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 17.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,091 lbs / 5,031 Kg = 239.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 3.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m (17.06 ft / 5.20 m before break)
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.11 ft / 5.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.2 %
Waterplane Area: 11,981 Square feet or 1,113 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 216 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 315 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.33
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Notes:
- Crane and internal hanger for floatplane(s) aft

2

Friday, December 31st 2010, 10:29pm

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Dierdre II-class, Irish Oceanic Sloop laid down 1941[/SIZE]

Displacement:
2,215 t light; 2,344 t standard; 3,202 t normal; 3,888 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
413.14 ft / 393.70 ft x 45.93 ft x 13.78 ft (normal load)
125.93 m / 120.00 m x 14.00 m x 4.20 m

Armament:
4 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1941 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1941 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 201 lbs / 91 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 550

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.77" / 45 mm 255.91 ft / 78.00 m 8.13 ft / 2.48 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.77" / 45 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,870 shp / 5,125 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,545 tons

Complement:
212 - 276

Cost:
£0.767 million / $3.068 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 177 tons, 5.5 %
- Belts: 155 tons, 4.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 8 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 182 tons, 5.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,282 tons, 40.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 987 tons, 30.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 17.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,055 lbs / 5,015 Kg = 238.2 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 13.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.08 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.06 ft / 5.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m (17.06 ft / 5.20 m before break)
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.11 ft / 5.21 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 46.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 190.1 %
Waterplane Area: 11,980 Square feet or 1,113 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 248 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 65 lbs/sq ft or 316 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.91
- Longitudinal: 2.35
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


3

Wednesday, January 5th 2011, 10:52pm

I did remember reading this the other day. The ship size is good, should be much more seaworthy than most current escort ships. I have a few other questions; Why the belt armour? Armour plate is expensive if nothing else. What is the machinery arrangement? The fuel level strikes me as being massively large at 30%, the sheer volume to keep it in would be very large compared to the size of the ship. 8,000nm at full speed strikes me as being rather more range than Ireland would need as well.

4

Wednesday, January 5th 2011, 11:09pm

The idea behind this ship is basically to be a cross between a 1940s OPV and a coast defense ship. My inspiration was the 1980s LÉ Eithne (the one still in service): a ship which can do oceanic patrol without being battered too badly in the weather, and which is small enough to do ASW work in wartime.

I kinda added the armour and range to soak up a bit of the hull strength, though I suppose I could have downsized the ship instead.

5

Wednesday, January 5th 2011, 11:15pm

Try this design. Shorter, less beamy, no armour and not as much miscellaneous weight.

Quoted

[SIZE=3]Dierdre II-class, Irish Oceanic Sloop laid down 1940, Design 3[/SIZE]

Displacement:
2,000 t light; 2,117 t standard; 2,615 t normal; 3,013 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
355.53 ft / 344.49 ft x 39.37 ft x 14.11 ft (normal load)
108.37 m / 105.00 m x 12.00 m x 4.30 m

Armament:
4 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 201 lbs / 91 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 550

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 6,271 shp / 4,678 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 896 tons

Complement:
182 - 237

Cost:
£0.688 million / $2.751 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 1.0 %
Armour: 18 tons, 0.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 168 tons, 6.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,539 tons, 58.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 615 tons, 23.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 9.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,361 lbs / 4,246 Kg = 201.7 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.478
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 30
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m (18.04 ft / 5.50 m before break)
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.52 ft / 5.34 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 41.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 177.6 %
Waterplane Area: 9,212 Square feet or 856 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 325 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 86 lbs/sq ft or 420 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.26
- Longitudinal: 5.84
- Overall: 1.47
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

6

Wednesday, January 5th 2011, 11:16pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
I kinda added the armour and range to soak up a bit of the hull strength, though I suppose I could have downsized the ship instead.


Or just leave it at higher strength than 1.00? I've built a few similar ships to HS1.50 from memory as they were coming out much more capable than historical vessels. It gives more of a safety factor, and hopefully a longer life for the hulls.

This last ship looks better though the bunkerage is still likely excessive for the size of vessel.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Red Admiral" (Jan 5th 2011, 11:18pm)


7

Wednesday, January 5th 2011, 11:23pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
This last ship looks better though the bunkerage is still likely excessive for the size of vessel.

How about if I reduce it to 5500nm@15knts - the same as the Irish destroyers - and leave the weight (407t) as low-stowed ballast?