WesWorld

While I have been working on some of my Turkish ship drawings I was fooling around with Yavuz and heres what I came up with, the original ship is posted first for comparison.





The second pic shows here with all her weapons except her main guns removed and replaced with DP 5.1" casemates in dual mounts, 12x88mm, 8x37mm and 4 20mm MG's. I'd likely swap 2 twin 88mm mounts for additional 37mm mounts and also add more 20mm.
Her fore and aft superstructure has also been beefed up a bit.

If you're prepared to give up any hope of ahead- or cross-deck firing with the amidships guns, the secondary locations are okay. But I think I'd consider just updating the 15cm guns in the casemates and leaving the upper deck clear for the big guns and flak.

Looks nice overall, though.

Rocky's right; any serious mod of Yavuz yields a limited arc of fire issue.

Back when the Warship Discussion forum was still the BC forum, I started a thread on modernizing Turkey's battlefleet. The assumption is they get both of the 13.5" BB building in the UK, as well as Sultan Osman I (Agincourt) and Yavuz. Yavuz was by far the toughest to deal with because of the enechelon turret arrangement. And trying to move out of the arcs of the midships turrets practically guarantees moving into the arcs of the end turrets. Either way, I'd hate to be a gunner in one of those seconday turrets when the main battery on the same side fires forward or aft.

I'd say you've probably done as well as can be done under the circumstances. At least, without razing her to the armored deck and starting over. An 8 gun broadside is still pretty respecable. She might not be able to slug it out with capital ships, but she's cruiser-killer.

If you still want cross-deck fire, I'd have one suggestion. Take the ship's boats to the tops of the en-echelon turrets. Blast is going to wreck them anyway; at least they'll have a chance of surving up there....

Incidentally, Wes, I saved the discussion on updating Yavus. If you want a look at to see some of the ideas that came up, send me an email or a PM and I'll email you a copy.

Regards,

Big Rich

Agree with the blast concerns, but how often would you really need the cross-deck firing, anyway?

Regardless of that, however, the port aftmost/starboard forwardsmost secondary turrets are in rather questionable positions, IMHO, especially the latter.

Originally I considered just placing the 88mm/37mm/20mm guns on her. The casemates in
my opinion begin to ruin her looks. I figured sunken casemates would be more habitable than proper
turrets. Both the 5.1" and boats were afterthoughts really so I'm not surprized they are the objects of concern. How would switching to oil fired boilers effect the funnel arangement?

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Incidentally, Wes, I saved the discussion on updating Yavus. If you want a look at to see some of the ideas that came up, send me an email or a PM and I'll email you a copy.

That would be awesome.

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Regardless of that, however, the port aftmost/starboard forwardsmost secondary turrets are in rather questionable positions, IMHO, especially the latter.

I assume because of their poximity to the main turrets?
I also considered adding either torpedos or additional secondarys on the quarterdeck cutting into the angled maindeck. The easiest solution right now would be to remove said casemate mounts and reduce their numbers to 12 in 6 turrets.

Have you considered removing the wing turrets and adding a heavy secondary battery in four to six turrets?

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I assume because of their proximity to the main turrets?

Right. The starboard turret especially will be blasted pretty good.

Back when I was playing the Ottomans in "Navalism 1" Rich sent me those 'updating Yavuz' files - if he doesn't mind I think I can fix it so I can post the relevant pictures here...?

Briefly, along with an idea to replace the 11.1" with triple 7.48" as on the Ulic Ali Reis. That would turn her into the largest heavy cruisers afloat though.

Four triple 7.48" turrets midships would give her a good boost though, I'd have to review our build rules to see if its possible, as Turkey I'm not limited as to what I can do with my ships. The only limit is cost and political effects.

Political effect = Greece builds (primary effect, possible secondary effects unknown at this time, but Italian, Russian, French, and Atlantis will be watching. Chile would have a new goal perhaps instead of El Cid).

Just consider what the greeks can and can't do. They can't match this ship with a super cruiser as I think all their capital ship tonnage is locked up. Sure the 14 inch guns can kill this ship...but they probably could before anyway. Might as well get the ability to kill cruisers faster with more firepower and rate of fire if the 11 inch can't take on the capital ships in the area as well as needed.

Cost is a huge factor however, I'd likely keep all the 11.1" anyway because if the sale of ships clause is accepted San Marco and Ulic Ali Reis are large enough to harass cruisers.

If my plans develope Yavuz will have a powerfull partner to "tag up with", leaving the older BB's to hold the fort.

Swampy,

I'd like to say 'yes' to that request, but I can't. Even though I was the initiator of the thread (it was my idea), the execution was done by our Chigga1Tym/Phillip Yamagi. I consider the LD to be his work, as he contributed to the discussion unsolicited. I wouldn't want to authorize someone to post his work without him knowing about it. I wouldn't want someone to do that with my work, so I don't want to do it with someone else's.

Regards,

Big Rich

That's understandable.

(Just make sure you send Wes the file with the description of the unfair fight between Erin and a seagull... ^_^ )

Speaking of "Turkish" ships....umm, Who's going to build ships for Brazil? (to play catchup with Argentina, Chile, and annoy South Africa). Since techincally Brazil started this arms race, would it not be wise for them to keep up with the Gonzoles's. (Turkish in the loosest form of the word, as the Brazilian Rio de Janerio would have been a Turkish ship (right?) in this reality, since it would have been finished before Britian would take it....as they did with Erin).

Agincourt was discussed way back-back-back-back...at the start of the sim; she was in fact taken over by Britian.

Now, as for her disposition, she was (at the time) listed as "Decommissioned, to be scrapped"; but at the time we didn't know the Argies were building a pair of dreadnoughts. ;-) So I would think the Brazilians would have 'bought her back'...thoughts anyone?

Well if that were the case we could remain on this thread after the talk on Yavus is finished and discuss how Brazil could rebuild the Rio.

Otherwise we'll need a new , or different existing, thread to discuss who Brazil's new supplier will be (or is).

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Political effect = Greece builds

Greece is building anyway. We build to our legal treaty limit.

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Just consider what the greeks can and can't do

Greece can outbuild Turkey 3:1 but the Greek Navy is limited at approx. 2:1 in treaty ships and Turkey is not a CT signatory. If Greece felt threatened by Turkish naval power (or in combination with another power - the heavy Italian influence in Turkish shipbuilding does not go unnoticed) Greece would withdraw from the treaty and establish a 3:1 superiority in whatever ships she felt necessary.

Cheers,

PS. Nice images Wes, I'd agree on the secondary turrets. Have you thought of a recessed well deck for the boats?

Acctually I didn't give any thought to a recessed well deck for the boats but it seems like an excellent idea, now the Greeks are influencing Turkey's designs!! lol

I did consider resessing the secondary's one deck though, giving them additional blast protection, but that would limit their firing arcs.

The important bits of real estate are on the superstructure on the disengaged side from the wing turret so you should put secondaries port side forward and starboard aft. Move the aft conning tower to a small tower on top of X Turret (IIRC this was on Italian rebuilds) and use the space on the aft superstructure for a secondary on the centreline.

I wonder what the weight penalty would be for raising the wing turrets on a higher barbette - probably not worth it.

Cheers,

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now the Greeks are influencing Turkey's designs

If you were letting that happen then you would pay more attention to torpedo protection. ; )

Cheers,

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Originally posted by alt_naval

If you were letting that happen then you would pay more attention to torpedo protection. ; )

Cheers,

Ahh but take a look at my Agri class! Turkey is taking a similar route as Greece, making things just as dangerous for Greek ships. When it comes to rebuilds I'm role playing a weak technical know how in reguards to Turkey, that will slowly change. I also have another plan up my sleeve....