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Aggregate VNVV Order of Battle, 1941:
- 1x Strike Aviation Brigade
- 4x Fighter Orlyaks
- 1x Maritime Fighter Orlyak
- 2x Tactical Bomber Orlyaks
- 1x Bomber Orlyak
- 4x Army Cooperation Orlyaks
- 1x Transport Orlyak
- 6x Military Flying Schools
Total Strength: 1,027 aircraft (procured strength) plus trainers (456 fighters, 198 bombers, 372 other types)
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Strike Aviation Brigade
1st Fighter Orlyak
-- 3rd Fighter Yato (18/24x DAR-12, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
-- 4th Fighter Yato (18/24x DAR-12, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
-- 10th Fighter Yato (18/24x DAR-12, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
-- 16th Fighter (Heavy) Yato (18/24x Eclipse Hurricanes, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
1st Bomber Orlyak
-- 4th Bomber Yato (12/18x Accrisius DB-1, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
-- 8th Bomber Yato (12/18x Accrisius DB-1, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
17th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (8x KB-11 Fazan)
3rd Staff-Utility Yato (8x KB-9 Bekas)
2nd Fighter Orlyak
1st Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkI, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
11th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkI, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
14th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkI, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
1st Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
3rd Fighter Orlyak
6th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIs or MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
17th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIs or MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
18th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIs or MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
2nd Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
4th Fighter Orlyak
7th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
9th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
13th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
4th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
5th Fighter Orlyak
5th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
15th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
19th Fighter Yato (18/24x Spitfire MkIIIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
5th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
6th Fighter (Maritime) Orlyak
2nd Fighter (Maritime) Yato (18/24x Firefly MkIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
8th Fighter (Maritime) Yato (18/24x Firefly MkIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
12th Fighter (Maritime) Yato (18/24x Firefly MkIs, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
1st Flying Boat Yato (12x Dornier Do24)
9th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
2nd Bomber Orlyak
3rd Bomber Yato (12/18x Spartan Sp-21Ms, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
7th Bomber Yato (12/18x Spartan Sp-21Ms, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
11th Bomber Yato (12/18x Spartan Sp-21As, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
8th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
3rd Bomber (Tactical) Orlyak
1st Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
2nd Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
6th Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
17th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (8/12x Fieseler Fi 156)
7th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
4th Bomber (Tactical) Orlyak
5th Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
9th Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
10th Bomber Yato (12/18x DAR-14Sz Dogans, 1x Bf-108 Taifun)
18th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (8/12x Fieseler Fi 156)
11th Staff Yato (2x KB-9 Bekas)
1st Army Cooperation Orlyak
2nd Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-11 Fazan)
3rd Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-11 Fazan)
6th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-11 Fazan)
14th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-11 Fazan)
6th Staff Yato (4x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
2nd Army Cooperation Orlyak
4th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
10th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
13th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
15th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
10th Staff Yato (4x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
3rd Army Cooperation Orlyak
1st Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
5th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
11th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
12th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x Fieseler Fi 156)
12th Staff Yato (4x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
4th Army Cooperation Orlyak
7th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
8th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
9th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
16th Reconnaissance-Liaison Yato (12/16x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
13th Staff Yato (4x KB-5 Tchutchuliga-III)
1st Transport Orlyak
1st Transport Yato (12x KB-309 Papagal, 1x KB-9 Bekas)
2nd Transport Yato (12x KB-309 Papagal, 1x KB-9 Bekas)
Royal Flight (1x DeHavilland Flamingo)
Bozhurishte Military Flying School
Conducts most recruit induction and ab-initio/primary training. Also includes the flight mechanics school. Bozhurishte was Bulgaria's first air force base, but no longer hosts line units, being solely engaged in pilot training.
Graf Ignatievo Military Flying School
Conducts ab-initio and primary training, as well as some intermediate training. Opened 1935 to assist Bozhurishte in meeting training quotas.
Uzundzhovo Military Flying School
Opened 1937, Uzundzhovo conducts some ab-initio and basic training, but specializes in aircrew training and aviation-spotter training.
Bezmer Military Flying School
Flying school associated with the Strike Aviation Brigade. Bezmer conducts finishing training for intermediate recruits and provides induction into line units.
Krumovo Military Flying School
Conducts ab-initio and basic training, opened 1937.
Kolarovo Military Flying School
Kolarovo will be opened 1941 for advanced fighter pilot training, using retired fighter aircraft.
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Originally posted by BruceDuncan
A very thorough and illuminating report. I had not realized that Bulgaria's air strength reached such numbers.
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Originally posted by Sachmle
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The "unknown" planes are the Eclipse Hurricanes, who's country of origin is... rather nebulous.
IIRC, one of the last things Lloyd (Tanthalas) did before he disappeared was 'move' Eclipse to his last country, which was Yugoslavia.
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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Would you mind providing total numbers of combat aircraft, transports and trainers please? I could probably calculate that from your posts but I am sure you have those values at hand.
Thanks.
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Sachmle" (Jun 15th 2011, 3:33pm)
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Just to jog my memory what were the limits set on Mexico?
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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Thanks. This is an impressive force.
Do you remember the discussion about the Mexican Airforce? IT had two components - technology and size. Technology aside, the point was raised that Mexico was planned to have an airforce too large for a country with only 3,5 factories (as an indicator for industrial strength). Now, Bulgaria has 3 factories and her airforce is as large or even larger than Mexico's before the discussions kicked in in. Remember the number of front line a/c we agreed on as reasonable for Mexico among moderators.
Based on that, and to be fair among players, you either have to downsize Bulgaria's airforce or we need to raise the limits for Mexico and other comparable countries.
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Just to jog my memory what were the limits set on Mexico?
Hoo mandated four hundred combat aircraft and a hundred trainers.
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Several points, in order.
1. I don't recall ever personally complaining about the size of the Mexican Air Force. I did remark on the difficulties their penny-packet orders would harm them in-character, but I generally limited my complaints to the aircraft technology itself.
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2. We did not all agree as moderators about any reasonable numbers for the Mexican Air Force. You told us the numbers you were mandating for Foxy, and asked Wes, ShinRa and I to hold our comments until you had achieved a final settlement with him yet, which to the best of my knowledge has not been made yet (or at least has not been shared with me if it was). I did offer my opinion that an order of battle, such as the above, would be useful in determining those numbers, but otherwise abided by your request to hold comments. Please do not misrepresent me.
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3. I have made no bones about the fact that I feel the Bulgarian Air Force is unrealistically large, and that it was my errors which made it so. The growth was the result of several coincident errors. First, shoddy bookkeeping which resulted in me placing orders of aircraft, misplacing my numbers, and ordering more. Second, a lack of knowledge when starting up about the requisite number of reserve and trainer aircraft required. Third, a misunderstanding of the political situation in the Balkans due to the poor backstory setup in the Balkans - a backstory we've only recently put right, and which alters the political calculus for Bulgaria. I've stated before my intent to downsize the VNVV (and the Bulgarian Army) in accordance with that new situation, but I'd also decided against retconning anything based on that.
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4. Who's adjudicating what's too large, too small, or just right? Up til now it's been the player, taking into account any criticism they receive. If we wish to be fair among players, then we need to discuss this with the player base as a whole and set out some rules or a "gentleman's agreement" about what constitutes 'acceptable' or 'unacceptable' air strength. But as people are so fond of pointing out "this is just a naval game": some people don't want to outline their air force orders of battle, and up til now that's always been acceptable to most here. If we're going to establish a system by which players are mandated to downsize or alter their air forces (or army forces or anything else "not naval"), then it needs to be universal and not mod-mandated.
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Should the players as a whole decide to create a mutually-agreeable in-game method of adjudicating air assets (and other armed strength), then I'll be happy to retcon all of the above and replace it with something more appropriate for Bulgaria. Until such a time as we choose to do that, I respectfully decline to deviate from my existing plan to resize the VNVV.
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Originally posted by HoOmAn
Btw, "retcon" is not a word known to me or my dic. I guess it is some kind of slang?
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