WesWorld

Project 416, Atlantean Anti-aircraft cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
5,683 t light; 5,994 t standard; 6,742 t normal; 7,340 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
539.37 ft / 527.00 ft x 49.50 ft x 19.75 ft (normal load)
164.40 m / 160.63 m x 15.09 m x 6.02 m

Armament:
12 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 66.33lbs / 30.09kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3.95" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.81lbs / 13.98kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.1 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 997 lbs / 452 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 408.00 ft / 124.36 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm

- Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 74,500 shp / 55,577 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,346 tons

Complement:
371 - 483

Cost:
£2.963 million / $11.854 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 125 tons, 1.8 %
Armour: 532 tons, 7.9 %
- Belts: 207 tons, 3.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 254 tons, 3.8 %
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,143 tons, 31.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,803 tons, 41.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,059 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,685 lbs / 2,579 Kg = 85.7 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.458
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.50 ft / 8.69 m
- Forecastle (11 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (11 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 18.48 ft / 5.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.8 %
Waterplane Area: 17,403 Square feet or 1,617 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 1.05
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

24 tons for torpedo's
16 tons for DC
10 tons for sonar
10 tons for torpedo and DC handling equipment
20 tons for future growth

Do you need 100mm guns on a ship with a 13cm main battery?

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Do you need 100mm guns on a ship with a 13cm main battery?

I wouldn't think so, I'd use the weight to increase the light AA or the armor. Speaking of the light AA, I expect the 40mm battery should be AA weapons, not breechloaders, and the layout doesn't make much sense.

Bah, yes they should be AA weapons, file edited.

The 100mm guns are pure AA weapons as opposed to the DP main armament. I could always ditch them and add more 40mm.

Then I´d do so....

Quoted

6 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts

Layout still doesn't make sense. 3 mounts, on the sides. So which side gets 2 mounts and which one only gets 1?

The 3rd mount is acctually on the centerline due to all weapons slots being used. If I remove the 3" AA then that problem will be solved.

Quoted

Main Belt covers 119 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

and

Quoted

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.2 %

I'd try to fidget with the design a bit in order to close that gap a bit. Should you decide to ditch th 100mm guns, it might be solved.

Quoted

The 3rd mount is acctually on the centerline due to all weapons slots being used. If I remove the 3" AA then that problem will be solved.

With the new SS coming up, you do not need to worry about that anymore.
Still, it could have been added to the notes...

Shes not much of a cruiser. More like an oversized destroyer.

Size is good.

Increase the size to 8000tons or so.

12x130mm guns in ABC - XYZ positions
4x130mm guns in QP beam positions.

There will still be awful problems making all that fit onto the hull and the ship will still be cramped, even at 8000tons.

Well the Atlanta's or more or less giant destroyers. In line combat they seem to be just about as effective as a small group of destroyers except that all your weapons can be taken out with the loss of only one ship.

Modified to fix bugs and ditch large caliber AA.

Project 416, Atlantean Anti-aircraft cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
5,695 t light; 5,994 t standard; 6,742 t normal; 7,340 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
539.37 ft / 527.00 ft x 49.50 ft x 19.75 ft (normal load)
164.40 m / 160.63 m x 15.09 m x 6.02 m

Armament:
12 - 5.10" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 66.33lbs / 30.09kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
20 - 0.79" / 20.1 mm guns (6 mounts), 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
8 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 825 lbs / 374 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 350
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 405.00 ft / 123.44 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 118 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.57" / 40 mm

- Armour deck: 0.79" / 20 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 74,500 shp / 55,577 Kw = 34.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,346 tons

Complement:
371 - 483

Cost:
£2.877 million / $11.506 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 103 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 531 tons, 7.9 %
- Belts: 205 tons, 3.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 47 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 254 tons, 3.8 %
- Conning Tower: 24 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 2,143 tons, 31.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,838 tons, 42.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,047 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,909 lbs / 2,680 Kg = 89.1 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 1.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 2.1 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.458
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.65 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.50 ft / 8.69 m
- Forecastle (12 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (12 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 18.50 ft / 5.64 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 117.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.8 %
Waterplane Area: 17,403 Square feet or 1,617 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 92 lbs/sq ft or 450 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.01
- Longitudinal: 1.97
- Overall: 1.08
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

24 tons for torpedo's
16 tons for DC
10 tons for sonar
10 tons for torpedo and DC handling equipment
20 tons for future growth

Quoted

Originally posted by Ithekro
Well the Atlanta's or more or less giant destroyers. In line combat they seem to be just about as effective as a small group of destroyers except that all your weapons can be taken out with the loss of only one ship.

Thats essentially what these ships are designed for, to act as DD leaders when they're not escorting CV's.
Their size is limited to permit larger numbers to be built and with some amount of expendability.

The current Atlantean CV group consists of 1xCV, 2xCA and 8xDD. Occationally a CL squadron is thrown in to assist. I'd like to free up some of the CA's for the battlefleet by adding a few CL's so the CV fleets will consist of 1xCV, 1xCA, 2xCL, 1xCLAA and 8xDD.