WesWorld

Well, you guys convinced me to delay a bit the big DD-building program, instead of building 8 destroyers each year I'm going to do it each 2-3 years, so in the middle I have shipbuilding capabilities that I'm going to use for other priorities I have. Such as light cruisers.


This is a design I have more or less ready to be started during 1927. I still haven't named it, but I got the stats and an (uncomplete) pics to show it in public...




Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
7.767 t light; 8.025 t standard; 9.205 t normal; 10.149 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
536,90 ft / 524,93 ft x 55,77 ft x 21,16 ft (normal load)
163,65 m / 160,00 m x 17,00 m x 6,45 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,89kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 899 lbs / 408 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
10 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 390,09 ft / 118,90 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 114 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 1,97" / 50 mm 3,15" / 80 mm
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0,71" / 18 mm, Conning tower: 4,72" / 120 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 94.274 shp / 70.328 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.125 tons

Complement:
469 - 610

Cost:
£2,840 million / $11,360 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 110 tons, 1,2 %
Armour: 1.249 tons, 13,6 %
- Belts: 665 tons, 7,2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 268 tons, 2,9 %
- Armour Deck: 271 tons, 2,9 %
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0,5 %
Machinery: 2.976 tons, 32,3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.432 tons, 37,3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.438 tons, 15,6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8.728 lbs / 3.959 Kg = 80,8 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,06
Metacentric height 2,3 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,520
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,41 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26,21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6,56 ft / 2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25,43 ft / 7,75 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 22,15 ft / 6,75 m
- Mid (63 %): 22,15 ft / 6,75 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m (22,15 ft / 6,75 m before break)
- Stern: 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Average freeboard: 21,72 ft / 6,62 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 114,3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128,8 %
Waterplane Area: 20.671 Square feet or 1.920 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 461 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,91
- Longitudinal: 2,22
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform




Still is a design in progress, as I'm refining it here and there, but it should be very similar to this one. Any thoughts, please feel free to comment .

The only thing I can think of now is that of all the dimensions that you can change on your ship, draught will give you the most hull strength points for the least increase of displacement. 21 feet seems a little bit much for an 8,000 ton light cruiser.

Another good design, fast and heavily armored. Except for her deck, that is.

I wonder if skipping a secondary armament (heavy AA) is an option in the 1920s. What is your thinking behind it other than saving weight?

The midship break is only 1,25m high - not enough for a deck. So why have a break at all?

Quintuble torpedo tubes?

The drawing is also quite nice. I´d probably move the funnels, boats and cranes forward a little bit to get more room aft where the second turbine room should be (assuming machinery dispersal).

In general she looks a tid bit modern for 1927 but which WesWorld-design does not? You could probably trim her look a little bit by using funnels that doesn´t look like those of a 1930s/40s passenger liner and by "reversing" her sterns shape. Her long bow also adds to he rmodern look but I wouldn´t change that. Gives her some kind of elegant touch, though.

Not bad, really not bad...

I'd go with a tad more deck armour. Otherwise, quite nice.

I'm inclined to suggest that her belt armor is perhaps excessive for a CL, but the armor/speed/protection combo is probably in keeping with Dutch practice...so I guess I won't suggest it after all.

I'll further the points about secondaries and deck armor, however.

The pic's looking good. You seem to have a "Dutch Look", which I like.

I'd reduce the belt armour to 90-100mm thick and work on a thicker deck, at least 30mm thick.

Lack of secondaries is a bit worrying as well.

Try and use a slimmer hull, say 180x18x6.4?

I agree with RA on the armor issue, as for her looks very nice indeed.

Points well noted...ok here goes a revised version of the ship. With DP 100mm secondaries, better deck armor and dimensions changed.

However in order to achieve all this I had to come into the 5% "cheat allowed" percentage, as the ship displaces 8359 tons standard.

I'll modify the pic when I "Freeze" the design



Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
8.070 t light; 8.359 t standard; 9.588 t normal; 10.571 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
602,69 ft / 597,11 ft x 59,71 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
183,70 m / 182,00 m x 18,20 m x 6,25 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (4x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.143 lbs / 519 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
10 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,33" / 110 mm 412,20 ft / 125,64 m 8,53 ft / 2,60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 1,81" / 46 mm 3,54" / 90 mm
2nd: 1,97" / 50 mm - -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 4,33" / 110 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 88.501 shp / 66.022 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.212 tons

Complement:
483 - 629

Cost:
£2,879 million / $11,516 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 141 tons, 1,5 %
Armour: 1.433 tons, 14,9 %
- Belts: 627 tons, 6,5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 278 tons, 2,9 %
- Armour Deck: 485 tons, 5,1 %
- Conning Tower: 42 tons, 0,4 %
Machinery: 2.794 tons, 29,1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.703 tons, 38,6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.518 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
10.138 lbs / 4.599 Kg = 93,9 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 2,8 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 15,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,459
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28,03 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (63 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Stern: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Average freeboard: 19,13 ft / 5,83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106,2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,6 %
Waterplane Area: 23.806 Square feet or 2.212 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 99 lbs/sq ft or 483 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,97
- Longitudinal: 1,30
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform





Now some answers:

Hooman:
Not sure if quintuple torpedo mounts are way too modern for the era, but yes, I put quintuples on the ship.

Secondaries were left out for weight reasons, but also because I didn't see true need for them into a CL. Reading the posts around here I realized I'm not about to build a 5500 ton CL, but a 8000 ton one, however. The ship is big enough to demand those guns, so I've put them in on the new design.

The midship break was "used" to bring up hull strenght without lowerng seakeeping too much. The ship was originally a flush deck (just as it is the new version) but seakeeping wasn't enough and didn't want to change the whole height of the ship, just a little part of it.

points about the drawing well noted.


RA:
belt armor over 100mm was one of the things I demanded on myself when I choose to go with 8x6'' guns only. Could've tried to smack 12 guns into the design on a lighter armored vessel (and was very inclined to do so) but I decided it was not to be because the already well known dutch priorities.



Now let's hear what do you think about the "refined" design.

Have a look at the stats for the Italian Condottieri I Class, to be found the encyclopedia.

They are 2000t smaller, but equally armed. Some of that 35mm deck armour could be traded off for more belt as well.

Why haven't you stayed with triples as the previous Netherlandaise design?

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Have a look at the stats for the Italian Condottieri I Class, to be found the encyclopedia

They are 2000t smaller, but equally armed. Some of that 35mm deck armour could be traded off for more belt as well.

But they got quite less armor and a hull strenght of 0.77. I have a smaller ship than the one posted avobe (166x16.6x6.25) that it's perfect with the hull strenght of 1.00, but I'm struggling to get her seaworthy enough. If I'm able to do it I'll build her instead of this larger version.

Quoted

Why haven't you stayed with triples as the previous Netherlandaise design?

You've got a good eye. This is closely linked with the unsatisfactory performance from triples on the "De Ruyter" and the Wadden Eilanden class CLs during the last November maneouvers. This will be posted on next quarter news, along the conclussions from the maneouvers themselves.

She has the protection and endurance we have come to expect in Dutch designs.

I have a slightly better design with 4 more 100mm guns, however it's got a 11,23-1 lenght:beam ratio and I'm not sure if that is legal under the rules we already have...


(for those who still didn't notice the implicit question...can I build that design? )


details are as follows:


Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
7.973 t light; 8.274 t standard; 9.505 t normal; 10.490 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
602,69 ft / 597,11 ft x 53,15 ft x 20,51 ft (normal load)
183,70 m / 182,00 m x 16,20 m x 6,25 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns (6x2 guns), 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.265 lbs / 574 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
10 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,33" / 110 mm 427,17 ft / 130,20 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 1,77" / 45 mm 3,15" / 80 mm
2nd: 1,97" / 50 mm - -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 90.118 shp / 67.228 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.216 tons

Complement:
480 - 625

Cost:
£2,939 million / $11,757 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 156 tons, 1,6 %
Armour: 1.446 tons, 15,2 %
- Belts: 692 tons, 7,3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 274 tons, 2,9 %
- Armour Deck: 453 tons, 4,8 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2.845 tons, 29,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.527 tons, 37,1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.532 tons, 16,1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8.894 lbs / 4.034 Kg = 82,4 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,07
Metacentric height 2,2 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 15,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,511
Length to Beam Ratio: 11,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27,61 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26,25 ft / 8,00 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Mid (68 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 18,04 ft / 5,50 m
- Stern: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Average freeboard: 19,13 ft / 5,83 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 110,0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114,0 %
Waterplane Area: 22.222 Square feet or 2.064 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs/sq ft or 460 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,33
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Quoted

Originally posted by RAM
Points well noted...ok here goes a revised version of the ship. With DP 100mm secondaries, better deck armor and dimensions changed.

However in order to achieve all this I had to come into the 5% "cheat allowed" percentage, as the ship displaces 8359 tons standard.

Displacement is not a problem but I think the very low bc you used is. With 0,459 it suits a DD better than a 8000+ts light cruiser.

I also wonder if it was necessary to install 8x 100mm guns. Wouldn´t 4x 100mm in single mounts be enough?

The original designs l:b ratio also was more attracting to me but 10:1 is neither a problem nor unrealistic. 11,23:1 on the other hand....

Note also that 50mm shields on those secondaries are a little bit heavy. Using those guns against a/c could be difficult.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn

I also wonder if it was necessary to install 8x 100mm guns. Wouldn´t 4x 100mm in single mounts be enough?

those 100mm guns are DP, but I placed them there mostly to give heavy AAA to the ship, and so, only 2 per side won't be enough...

tho I gave it a though, 6x100mm, 3 per side, could compensate the lesser number of barrels with the higher RoF of a single mount...so I have redesigned the ship along this lines.

Quoted

The original designs l:b ratio also was more attracting to me but 10:1 is neither a problem nor unrealistic. 11,23:1 on the other hand....

thought so...new ship has a 10.24:1 L/B ratio...still over 10 but I guess this one could be allright . BC has gone up to 0.485, too

Quoted

Note also that 50mm shields on those secondaries are a little bit heavy. Using those guns against a/c could be difficult.

reduced the armor of the 2nd battery, too .


Ok, here are the new design stats:

Enter ship name, Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
7.998 t light; 8.280 t standard; 9.501 t normal; 10.478 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
592,50 ft / 587,27 ft x 57,41 ft x 20,34 ft (normal load)
180,59 m / 179,00 m x 17,50 m x 6,20 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.082 lbs / 491 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
10 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 411,71 ft / 125,49 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,92" / 125 mm 1,77" / 45 mm 2,95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 2,76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 89.739 shp / 66.945 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.198 tons

Complement:
480 - 625

Cost:
£2,866 million / $11,466 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 1,4 %
Armour: 1.442 tons, 15,2 %
- Belts: 703 tons, 7,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 243 tons, 2,6 %
- Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4,9 %
- Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2.833 tons, 29,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.590 tons, 37,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.503 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9.857 lbs / 4.471 Kg = 91,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m
Roll period: 15,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,485
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27,66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -6,56 ft / -2,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Mid (68 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Stern: 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Average freeboard: 19,56 ft / 5,96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127,5 %
Waterplane Area: 23.037 Square feet or 2.140 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 472 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,37
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform




almost forgot...updated pic available




Thoughts?

Regarding the picture - her stern now looks kind of edgy so probably you could try to work on the transition from her lower to her upper hull.

BUT NOTE: Your drawing does not reflect her hull having a transom stern. So something needs to be change anyway.

Her hull in general seems somewhat high - are you sure about the scale? Could be wrong, though.

In general I prefer cruisers with a hull break but we all have our favorites, right? :o) I´d also like to add that her former, shorter hull looked better to - at least to me. She was more compact.

Regarding her design - secondaries are with hoists as it seems. Is this necessary? Otherwise some more weight could be saved.

Have you given thought to using 4x3 TTs instead of 2x5?

You´ve also worked on her armor suit. Have you run some calculations regarding her new armor thicknesses? Why have you decided to keep an armored coning tower? Are 70mm suffice to protect those in command and at what ranges?

PS: Is there anybody else who got the strange feeling she somehow looks a little bit like a mini-HOOD now?!

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Regarding the picture - her stern now looks kind of edgy so probably you could try to work on the transition from her lower to her upper hull.

BUT NOTE: Your drawing does not reflect her hull having a transom stern. So something needs to be change anyway.

ewwwwwwwwww true...forgot about it when drawing the ship...

Quoted

Her hull in general seems somewhat high - are you sure about the scale? Could be wrong, though.

nope, the height of the hull from waterline to freeboard is 5.8m, around 23 pixels on the scale I'm drawing at (4pixels=1m). Have checked it, its allright

Quoted

In general I prefer cruisers with a hull break but we all have our favorites, right? :o) I´d also like to add that her former, shorter hull looked better to - at least to me. She was more compact.

hull breaks are nice (I love low quarterdecks) but there was no way in hell I was able to get enough seakeeping and hull strenght with a hull break where I wanted it to be...so I simply went on with a flush deck design .


About the rest...well, the ship has won around 20m from the initial drawing so it would hardly be as compact as previously...in fact I have so much space to spare that I'm left with loads of freespace, so much that I'm wondering if it would be worth adding a catapult on the ship.

Quoted

Regarding her design - secondaries are with hoists as it seems. Is this necessary? Otherwise some more weight could be saved.

If I got it right, hoists give faster reloading times and so faster firing, isn't it?...then the weight sacrifice is something I am happy to accept

Quoted

Have you given thought to using 4x3 TTs instead of 2x5?

not really. the 2x5 TTs were used because when I first designed the ship I wasn't really sure of where to place the launchers...now that I know, and that I have lots of space, I have it...in fact I have enough for 4x4TTs... hehehehe

Quoted

You´ve also worked on her armor suit. Have you run some calculations regarding her new armor thicknesses? Why have you decided to keep an armored coning tower? Are 70mm suffice to protect those in command and at what ranges?

70mm are enough to keep some of the lighter fire away. This ship is very fast indeed and should be able to keep destroyers at a decent distance.

My initial reasoning behind not putting secondaries was just that: 100mm guns aren't too effective against anything bigger than a DD, and I didn't want this ship to go in a close fight against them, but keep them at a distance while giving a good 6 inch pounding. So, 100mm guns weren't of any use for me. Then I read some of the answers here and thought about planes...the rest is history .


With 70mm destroyer and light fire should kept out of the CT at the ranges I want this ship to fight at. When I checked it I could go up and place 85mm to ensure better protection of this kind without having to change anything else, so I've done it...But I think it was all right as it was.

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PS: Is there anybody else who got the strange feeling she somehow looks a little bit like a mini-HOOD now?!

by the looks certainly it's got a resemblance. Not bad, in fact...Hood was a very ellegant ship indeed!




new stats:


Dutch Light cruiser laid down 1927

Displacement:
8.010 t light; 8.292 t standard; 9.514 t normal; 10.492 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
592,50 ft / 587,27 ft x 57,41 ft x 20,34 ft (normal load)
180,59 m / 179,00 m x 17,50 m x 6,20 m

Armament:
8 - 6,00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 110,23lbs / 50,00kg shells, 1925 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1924 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.082 lbs / 491 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 145
16 - 24,0" / 609,6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 4,53" / 115 mm 411,68 ft / 125,48 m 9,19 ft / 2,80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 4,92" / 125 mm 1,77" / 45 mm 2,95" / 75 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0,39" / 10 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,10" / 28 mm, Conning tower: 3,35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 89.847 shp / 67.026 Kw = 34,00 kts
Range 10.000nm at 15,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.200 tons

Complement:
481 - 626

Cost:
£2,870 million / $11,479 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 133 tons, 1,4 %
Armour: 1.448 tons, 15,2 %
- Belts: 703 tons, 7,4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
- Armament: 243 tons, 2,6 %
- Armour Deck: 470 tons, 4,9 %
- Conning Tower: 32 tons, 0,3 %
Machinery: 2.836 tons, 29,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.592 tons, 37,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.504 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9.864 lbs / 4.474 Kg = 91,3 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 1,3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,09
Metacentric height 2,6 ft / 0,8 m
Roll period: 15,0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,486
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,23 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27,65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12,00 degrees
Stern overhang: -2,46 ft / -0,75 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24,61 ft / 7,50 m
- Forecastle (24 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Mid (68 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Stern: 19,03 ft / 5,80 m
- Average freeboard: 19,56 ft / 5,96 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107,8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118,1 %
Waterplane Area: 23.051 Square feet or 2.142 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 472 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,37
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

I'd definitly see if I could squeeze in the 50t for a scoutplane.

(BTW is it just me or does 25t seem a little excessive for a catapult? What about a transverse 'cat like the British used?)


I'd keep the hoists for the 100mm guns...definitly facilitaes ammo supply.


Conning Towers...the Filipinos have pretty much standardised on a 65mm CT, and I'll be using that thickness even on my battleships. I follow the philosphy that, while thicker towers may well stop larger shells, it's no good if everyone inside has been concussed into a bloody pulp. OTOH, I don't want my bridge crews cut down by a strafing aircraft, or shell splinters. A CT in the 50-70mm range should stop the little stuff, while allowing the big 'uns to go clean through.

Sometime ago I run several calculations with Bernhard on this issue. Results: Everything above 30mm is a waste if you want splinter/light gun protection only. Everything below 80mm is a waste if you want resonable protection against 150mm shells at medium or long ranges.

That´s why I asked....

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(BTW is it just me or does 25t seem a little excessive for a catapult? What about a transverse 'cat like the British used?)

I'd like to think that those 25 tons are not only for the catapult, but also for the crane, tools for cataplt and crane maintenance, and a few other things. The 25 tons is probably too much, but at least you can be sure that you have enought miscellaneous weight for that.
I use those 25 tons for a cat ever since Hooman (I think) made a remark about that (some time ago).

I once had a very good list with all weights for a british flaotplane, catapult and necessary stuff on a cruiser. According to that list 25ts is pretty realistic for one plane.

More planes wouldn´t cost 25ts per plane alone but if you also add more ammo, fuel, spare parts, flying personal etc. it should fit our needs.

Not sure if I find that list among my files again but if so I´ll post it here.