WesWorld

It seems that the world map and national histories may not be completely accurate, so to avoid future confusion could you please post what important events/twists are not recorded.

Russia made a separate peace in March 1917, on the basis of the front lines at that time.

My best advice is to assume that nothing is as the real-world in terms of land, borders, politics or timeframes. It seems to me that all of the WW History prior to the Great War is not written although most of it is.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
My best advice is to assume that nothing is as the real-world in terms of land, borders, politics or timeframes. It seems to me that all of the WW History prior to the Great War is not written although most of it is.

Well that is the confusing part, I belived that with the obvious exceptions everything was OTL until WW1.

Erm Nordmark is not OTL prior to WW1, same with the SAE; but the history is there, you just have to do some digging.

Hood is right though, assume nothing to be OTL, and things seem easier.

So Persia is really an industrial powerhouse with 282 factories?

erm well Persia's infrastructure is stated, thus it is that.

We mainly mean Historical events, figures, even whole nations history's may be different from OTL

Yes, I know... Which doesnt make it any easier. Example there seems to have been no Russo-Polish war and yet Poland captured western Ukraine. No hostility between Turks and Armenians. Armenia and Azerbaijan at least to the statements somehow were not ever captured or lost by Russia prior to WW1 etc

Vukovlad, the safest thing to do is live by the following....
"Assume nothing!!"

The S%£t that Iberia has taken over the failure of that simple premise........

This is a FANTASY sim, easily observed by the rather large hazard to navigation in the mid-Atlantic.

I know its fanatsy, which is why I like it

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
I know its fanatsy, which is why I like it

Glad you do... Otherwise you may have been in trouble. ;o)

A big difference with Turkey is Enver Pasha's Armenia campaign was slightly more successfull, thus some of the Armenians he saw historically as working to undermine the Ottomans efforts in the campaign were eliminated in battle, thus no internal scapegoats for defeat. Only later did Russia make significant gains to push the Ottomans back out of Armenia.

In short the larger more controversial Armenian "Genocides" did not occur, thus not really souring Turko-Armenian relations to the point of outright post war animosity. Also having eventually capitulating in the war has made the Turks somewhat isolationist in their own region for a period.

Recent SATSUMA expansionist actions have helped pull the Turks out of that isolationist possition and take a more active role in world politics, case in piont the Lithuania crisis.

As for Atlantis I have a history laid out, but being a fictional nation I have no "historical" events to confuse anyone, though it has effected other nations "historical" actions and events.

Quoted

rather large hazard to navigation in the mid-Atlantic.

Frankly I thought it makes quite a good service station.

Italy's recent history played out a bit differently in WWI, mostly static in the Alps, instead helping out in the Bosphorus. Italy gained a reasonable slice of Turkey before the peace settlement, the land was then ceded back to Turkey and the islands off the coast to Greece. In the Alps, the Austrians pushed Italian troops back at Caporetto as historical and then were beaten in Veneto leading to peace there. Postwar, D'Annunzio leads Italy into Fíume and Dalmatia and without Wilson to stop them, Italy makes good on the territory promised to her by Britain and France.

I've always thought so! Also any battle of the Atlantic will be slightly smaller in scale du tothe aircover radius being increased.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I've always thought so! Also any battle of the Atlantic will be slightly smaller in scale du tothe aircover radius being increased.

Really it just depends where you want to fly to in the US. For going to New York you're not much better off flying direct. IIRC the difference was a few hundred miles when I measured it.

There is a rather long and boring post on the Netherland's history in the Netherlands encyclopedia. A-historic events are italicized.

I'll poke through it and paste the major changes back to here.

*waiting for edit*

History

I don't really expect anyone to have waded through all this, it's mainly for me because I knew little Dutch history and couldn't figure out how the Netherlands wound up the the Kongo, but it had French names, but not the Belgian winnings of WWI... etc.

Bits relating to the later territories of SAE should be in accordance with what Hoo has, but should there be differences, SAE takes precedence. Likewise the various Indian invasions are from Rocky's history. Bits involving other nations were posted in a single post long ago to ensure no objections.

1600 : Around 1600 was first trade route to South America established by the Dutch. The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands loosely allies with the nascent Atlantean Empire against the Iberians.

1602: The Dutch first landed in Sri Lanka in 1602, then under Portuguese control, and by 1658 had completely ousted the Portuguese from the island. It remained a very large trading post with excellent relations with the inland Kingdom until destroyed in 1723 by Shambaji II of India.

1600-1770 Several small conflicts between Iberia and Atlantis lead to annexation of Canary Islands but defeats in the Azores for Atlantis. Last and largest conflict results in the rebirth of the Atlantean navy as a sizable fighting force, colonization of Venezuela, Trinidad, Tobago and Grenada and the creation of the Atlantean Empire

1630 - 1640s

Dutch take lands on Brazil's northwestern coast as New Holland and settle lands across the river from Spanish colony at Buenos Ares as the New Flanders (Plate) Colony.

1727-1729 : Dutch forces decide to effect Spanish trade by retaking the former New Flanders, now named Uruguay, and Uruguay is recaptured in 1728. The 1729 Treaty of Seville saw the formal transfer of Uruguay to the Netherlands. (ooc : had forgotten that)

1723 : Shambaji II destroys the Sri Lankan Dutch trading post.

1810-1813 : The Netherlands is incorporated into France.
Dutch Plate Colony (Uruguay/New Flanders ) breaks away from French controlled Low Countries after British attempt to gain control of colony.
Cape Colony resists British invasion and break away from French controlled Low Counties.

1905
The independent commission of enquiry, despite the King's [Leopold II of Belgium] efforts, confirms Casement's report [on the horrors of Leopold's genocidal exploitation of the Congo] in every damning detail. The commission, investigating the conditions of the other partitions of the Berlin Conference, documents the similarly atrocious conduct of French colonial officials in Ubangi-Shari.


Leopold offered to reform his regime, but few took him seriously. All nations were now agreed that the King's rule must be ended as soon as possible, but no nation was willing to take on the responsibility, and it was not seriously considered to return control of the land back to the native population. Belgium was the obvious European candidate to run the Congo, but the Belgians were still unwilling.


Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands is reportedly outraged at the Belgian abdication of responsibility and is reported to have said
"I fail to comprehend why the Belgians fail to accept the responsibility for their King. Should the situation be different, and if Belgium were still a part of the Netherlands, and I their Queen, I would assume responsibility for the peoples of the Congo even if my Government would not."

Whatever was truly said, the following day the French Ambassador formally proposed that if Ubangi-Shari and the Congo Free state be transferred to the personal ownership of good Queen Wilhelmina, a resolution that was quickly adopted.

Queen Wilhelmina found little support for the expensive adventure in her own Government. However, as perhaps the second most wealthy person in Europe (after Leopold II), and as Consiutional commander of portions of the Royal Netherlands Navy, Royal Marines, and the entire Six Household Regiments, she had the means to take charge. Prince Consort Duke Hendrik led the troops into the Congo to replace, forcibly in many cases, the Force Publique and impose law.

The Queen organized true humanitarian and administrative relief efforts, including the concession of inviting the Jesuit missionaries to establish medical and educational facilities. The Royal medical service, seeks install a new regime of public health. Queen Wilhelmina taps her personal finances to supplement the army to build up the infrastructure of the new possessions, building railways, telegraph and telephone lines, and upgrading roads and port facilities.



1907
February : 'Royal Dutch' and 'Shell' merge to form N.V. Koninklijke Nederlandsche Petroleum Maatschappij (Royal Dutch Shell) .
May : Queen Wilhelmina offers her palace for another meeting of the Hauge Conventions.
July : Marie-Adelaide, eldest of six sisters, named Heir Apparent of Luxembourg.

Elections are held in 1907 and the new Government agrees to include the Kingdom of the Kongo and the Grand Duchy of Ubangi-Shari in the United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

1914
September: Sizeable German investments in the Dutch economy combined with a large trading partnership in goods forced the United Kingdom to blockade the Dutch ports in an attempt to weaken the German Empire. The Dutch government traded with Germany in response. The United Kingdom proceeds to seize Dutch merchantmen found carrying what the United Kingdom defined as contraband. The Dutch Navy is warned that if it sails beyond territorial waters, the Royal Navy will consider it a foe.

The execution of the Schlieffen plan allowed the German armies to sweep through Luxembourg and Belgium. Luxembourg capitulated, but Belgium resisted for days before the Germans shattered King Albert I's army. Entente propaganda decried the "merciless hun" and the "rape of Belgium". Massacres of Belgian civilians reported at Andenne, Tamines, and Dinant, up to 5,500 Belgians reported dead.

Queen Wilhelmina announces " The House of Orange has served and protected the peoples of the Lowlands for four centuries. We have grown concerned that our peoples are suffering needlessly under the occupation of a hostile army. We have offered to assume the neutral administration of occupied Belgium and a equal and fair administration of the laws. We come as friends to shield our ancient countrymen, and should any governing city or province of Belgium request it, we allow them to return to German occupation."

With the concurrence of the Germans, the Six Regiments of the Household marched into Flanders, where they were welcomed by the Flemish. The Walloons, instigators of the 1830 revolt, initially refused the Dutch presence, but by December, having seen the peace of Dutch-controlled Flanders, requested the Dutch Army to take over. Luxembourg remains run by the collaborationist Grand Duchess Marie-Adelaide.

The Queen's action initially spurred a new governmental crisis, which abated when the warm welcome the Flemish gave became clear. In December, the Netherlands government voted to relieve the household regiments with units of the regular army.

Within the Entente, and Albert's government in exile, muted outrage was the response. However there was little desire to spur the Dutch to officially join the Germans, adding ~18 divisions and their small fleet of 4 predreadnaughts and 2 battlecruisers, and raiding-suitable cruisers to the Central Powers.


1916-17 India invades the Andaman Islands, starting a war with the Netherlands. India, having struck a deal with the Entente, seizes the Andaman Islands by force. The local Netherlands forces fight back, but due to the United Kingdom's blockade are unable to be reinforced.

1917 The Treaty of Honolulu ends the Indian-Dutch conflict. In the Wilson-brokered Treaty of Honolulu, The Netherlands cedes the Andaman Islands to India in return for recognition of the Nicobars and reparations.[/I]

1918 The Great War Ends. The Dutch Army returns control of Belgium to Albert I. While the administration is well thought of by the commoners of Belgium, official relations are frosty.

1919 With the June 28th signing of the Versailles treaty, large areas of Germany, are granted to the reborn Poland. These territories have in excess of 5,000,000 inhabitants, many of Germanic stock. The loss of Germany's colonies, such as German East Africa, also created dislocated peoples. Queen Wilhelmina offers aid and citizenship to all effected persons who wish to relocate to the open areas of the Kongo, Ubangi-Shari or the savannas of Southern Suriname, recently opened to settlement by a railway.

In Luxembourg, Grand Duchess Marie-Adelaide, unpopular due to wartime cooperation with the Germans, abdicates in favor of her younger sister Charlotte. Grand Duchess Charlotte maries Felix of Bourbon, Prince of Parma.

Within the Netherlands, the perception of the outcome of the Great War and the Andaman war is that the Queen and her Prime Minister 'backed the wrong horse'. The Queen's influence and popularity is muted, though the new government does enact her proposed Woman's suffrage. <note: actually that was 1917>

1920
SANTA announced.
Cleito Treaty signed.
Immigration to the Kongo formally expanded to include SAE.

1924
October 1, SATSUMA announced.

1927
The Netherlands holds an election and a new government is elected led by Prime Minister Jan de Voor. Later in the year, The Netherlands joins AANM.


And yes, this is the short version.

While not listed, 1932 is when Royal Dutch & Shell started oil exploration in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, as opposed to the historic 1933 for Standard Oil. I wasn't aware of the "Red line".

Did the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-22 occur?

Nope, though it would have been a much better time to retake the Greek territory on Anatolia, had Turkey been in the state to do so. The Turkish fleet was interned for some time along with some of the Austro-Hungarian vessels.

Any naval expansion Turkey has done, Greece has done twofold.

How about the Russo-Polish War and the Russian Civil War?