WesWorld

With the tonnage being acquired by the sale of the Third Cruiser Squadron Bharat will start construction of this ships as slips become available.

Credit to Walter for the SIM.

LST1, India Landing Tank Ship laid down 1937

Displacement:
1,306 t light; 1,362 t standard; 1,555 t normal; 1,710 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
334.78 ft / 328.08 ft x 50.00 ft x 5.58 ft (normal load)
102.04 m / 100.00 m x 15.24 m x 1.70 m

Armament:
6 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
6 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16 lbs / 7 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 2,000

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 150.10 ft / 45.75 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 70 % of normal length

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,373 shp / 1,025 Kw = 13.40 kts
Range 11,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 348 tons

Complement:
123 - 160

Cost:
£0.306 million / $1.224 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 167 tons, 10.7 %
- Belts: 167 tons, 10.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 37 tons, 2.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,099 tons, 70.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 250 tons, 16.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,547 lbs / 15,217 Kg = 25,643.6 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 13.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.27
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 12.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.595
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.18 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 27 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.41 ft / 5.61 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 16.56 ft / 5.05 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 12.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 316.1 %
Waterplane Area: 12,445 Square feet or 1,156 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 603 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 68 lbs/sq ft or 332 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.21
- Longitudinal: 2.74
- Overall: 1.32
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

And here is the full one.

LST1, India Landing Tank Ship laid down 1937

Displacement:
3,351 t light; 3,449 t standard; 3,658 t normal; 3,825 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
332.45 ft / 328.08 ft x 50.00 ft x 12.01 ft (normal load)
101.33 m / 100.00 m x 15.24 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
6 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
6 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 16 lbs / 7 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 2,000

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 150.10 ft / 45.75 m 8.50 ft / 2.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 70 % of normal length

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,382 shp / 1,031 Kw = 12.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 376 tons

Complement:
234 - 305

Cost:
£0.723 million / $2.891 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 168 tons, 4.6 %
- Belts: 168 tons, 4.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 37 tons, 1.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,044 tons, 28.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 308 tons, 8.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 2,100 tons, 57.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5,662 lbs / 2,568 Kg = 4,328.1 x 1.4 " / 35 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 28 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 38
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 12.01 ft / 3.66 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.01 ft / 3.05 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.01 ft / 3.05 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.01 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.01 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.8 %
Waterplane Area: 13,111 Square feet or 1,218 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 307 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.13
- Longitudinal: 1.11
- Overall: 1.11
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Hey Foxy, looks like it's time for the Aussies to upgrade beach defenses...

Hmmm... Funny that I just noticed that the "Bunker at max displacement" is different in both designs. This is most likely caused by the fac that when working in SS itself on a design the bunker given in there (which is the value I use to end up with the same size bunker as the previous design) is not the bunker at maximum displacement and IIRC those values were the same.

Shouldn't be too much of a problem to correct it, considering the HS that is left...

I'm not sure on the utility of the belt armour given the gaping big hole in the deck filled with fuelled and not very well protected vehicles...

So the concept is the first vessel is the unloaded version, and the second is a loaded, with a deeper draft and fuller hull? I am a little curious as to why the first was modeled?

I'm not sold on the belt either, only 0.5m higher than the difference in drafts, and no deck armor.

Real Satyaki Stats:

Satyaki, India Large Destroyer laid down 1937

Displacement:
2,889 t light; 2,995 t standard; 3,185 t normal; 3,338 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
489.53 ft / 474.00 ft x 42.00 ft x 14.00 ft (normal load)
149.21 m / 144.48 m x 12.80 m x 4.27 m

Armament:
6 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns (3x2 guns), 59.59lbs / 27.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 371 lbs / 168 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
15 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 73,863 shp / 55,102 Kw = 38.05 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 343 tons

Complement:
211 - 275

Cost:
£2.137 million / $8.548 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 46 tons, 1.5%
Armour: 40 tons, 1.3%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 40 tons, 1.3%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 1,798 tons, 56.4%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 954 tons, 30.0%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 297 tons, 9.3%
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.6%
10t: radar
10t: sonar
30t: torpedo reloads (2t each)

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
720 lbs / 326 Kg = 12.1 x 4.9 " / 125 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.29 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forecastle (20%): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (40%): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 17.27 ft / 5.26 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 195.3%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 83.1%
Waterplane Area: 12,718 Square feet or 1,182 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 70%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 200 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

*snip*

Quoted

Length to Beam Ratio: 11.29 : 1

*snap*

Quoted

Gentlemens rules:
Point 2: Length:Beam ratio.
(as currently proposed)
a) Ships of 8000 tons and smaller => maximum 11:1
b) Ships bigger than 8000 tons => maximum 10:1

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
*snip*

Quoted

Length to Beam Ratio: 11.29 : 1

*snap*

Quoted

Gentlemens rules:
Point 2: Length:Beam ratio.
(as currently proposed)
a) Ships of 8000 tons and smaller => maximum 11:1
b) Ships bigger than 8000 tons => maximum 10:1

As far as I know, the L:B ratio has always been 12:1 for ships smaller than 8000 tons so when was this changed?

Hasn't been changed in the Rules and admin section if it is.

Actually it has been changed in the Rules and admin section and it is a farily recent change as well. Last time I accessed the Design Rules thread, was quite recently (regarding the hull strength uses a at light displacements that had suddenly been changed to standard for some unexplained reason) and I would certainly have noticed it if it had been changed to 11:1 back then as it is right below the hull strength rule. I cannot remember any discussions about changing this and to be honest, with 10:1 and 11:1 being so close together, you might as well change it to 10:1 for all ships that are being simmed.

I've simply assumed that 11:1 was the limit and has been for some time.

Actually, he might be right, it might have once been a 12:1 ratio. However, if it's been changed, it's been there quite a while - several months at least, because I was reviewing the rules back in June for a DD design. I'm pretty certain, though not 100% certain, that it was 11:1 then.

This design was in the works since the Satyaki misinformation news appeared in April and it was still 12:1 at the time.

Are there any existing ships which would be breaking the 11:1 ratio rule? (Just found two in Chile that are over 11:1, so the answer is yes.)

I won't support switching things to a flat-out 10:1 ratio, because I know that I have two incomplete destroyers which would be "outlawed" if that was the case.

(Incidentally, it's nice to know that the original Satyaki design was a ploy... because I was seriously wondering if India had gone off it's bean with that.)

Plus an Italian one is also 11:1. And yes, you have to be reaaally stupid to try to built that thing as the first Satyaki designs.

It wouldn't matter when the ship was designed but when the design is acctually released. If the 11:1 ratio was in effect at the time of release thats what we would go by. Other designs do breach this limit but were built before the change.

I honestly don't recall when the ratio was changed, I'd have to do some digging, perhaps the other mods know off the top of their head?

If the ratio was just randomly changed, then I'd kinda like to know why it was changed before we keep it that way... I don't entirely mind the ratio being 11:1, so long as a good reason is given.

I don't believe it was randomly changed, as far as I've known the ratio has always been 11:1 and I havn't found any posts discussing any recent "random" change.

*Shrugs.* It's possible. I always refer back to the post itself when designing a ship, and L:B ratio is never something I've really had to deal with much. (Indeed, I seem more likely to make a fat ship. ))

Ditto, the highest L:B ratio I have is the K class destroyer with a ratio of 10.69 : 1 (your design Brock!). Most hover around 10.6:1.