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1

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 2:02am

Denmarks old TB's.....

are just that, OLD!!
and as a result in need of replacement.
How does this look???

Dagger, Denmark Torpedo boat laid down 1936

Displacement:
915 t light; 948 t standard; 1,040 t normal; 1,114 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
307.00 ft / 290.00 ft x 29.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
93.57 m / 88.39 m x 8.84 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 219 lbs / 99 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 25,225 shp / 18,818 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 166 tons

Complement:
91 - 119

Cost:
£0.644 million / $2.575 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 18 tons, 1.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 479 tons, 46.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 340 tons, 32.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 125 tons, 12.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
312 lbs / 142 Kg = 5.9 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 13.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.361
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.83 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (56 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m (8.00 ft / 2.44 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Stern: 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 13.40 ft / 4.08 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 51.2 %
Waterplane Area: 5,295 Square feet or 492 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.09
- Overall: 0.60
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

A limited ASW capability of 1 Rail and 2 DC Guns with a total of 30 depth charges is also carried.

2

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 2:30am

Aw, wadda cyoot widdle baby destro AHH it's coming after me!

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

  • Send private message

3

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 2:45am

RE: Denmarks old TB's.....

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
Block coefficient: 0.361


Point 5: Block Coefficient
No bc less than 0.38 is allowed. Only small high speed planing or semi-planing hulls are allowed to have a bc smaller than that.

I am dubious about having twin 120mm on a 8.8m beam and such a low bc (presuming it's upped to 0.38).
The Laforeys and Javilens had twin 4.7 on 36 & 35ft beams.

However with 4 singles you may have trouble fitting the 2 torpedo launchers- the Isis class was 4x1 4.7, had two sets of torps, and was 30ft longer.

100 rounds/gun sounds low for DP work.

One propeller shaft might be acceptable on such a craft.

4

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 3:43am

Second Try...

a bit heaver.......


Dagger, Denmark Torpedo boat laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,065 t light; 1,110 t standard; 1,209 t normal; 1,288 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
308.40 ft / 290.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
94.00 m / 88.39 m x 9.75 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 218 lbs / 99 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 28,256 shp / 21,079 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 178 tons

Complement:
102 - 133

Cost:
£0.739 million / $2.955 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 20 tons, 1.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 571 tons, 47.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 407 tons, 33.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
403 lbs / 183 Kg = 7.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.380
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (57 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 15.19 ft / 4.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.8 %
Waterplane Area: 5,871 Square feet or 545 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.65
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

A limited ASW capability of 1 Rail and 2 DC Guns with a total of 30 depth charges is also carried.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

  • Send private message

5

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 3:52am

Looks better. I'd still like to see more shells and continue to have, albeit milder, concerns regarding the beam. Historic British twin 4" in Janes generally have 29-31.5ft beams, while the twin 4.7" vessels were for like 33-36.5. However that could just be the Brits, and I don't feel like checking lots of DDs, so I'll let others chew on it :)

6

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 10:25am

I think the armament is a bit heavy for the size of vessel. I'd go for 3 single mountings instead.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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7

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 12:15pm

The re-designed version is an impressive design and quite similar to the OTL H-class DDs of the Royal Navy. The latter were 3-4 knots faster which required a hull about 200-250ts heavier and hence a bit longer but on the other hand your design has a much better AA suit.

I´d love to see a deckplan to see where you will place all those guns. Do you have a sketch at hand?

8

Sunday, August 3rd 2008, 1:45pm

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
I´d love to see a deckplan to see where you will place all those guns. Do you have a sketch at hand?


"Patience, Grasshopper"

howard

Unregistered

9

Monday, August 4th 2008, 9:11pm

If you can make it work......

at about 1000 tons, Siam will be interested as soon as the build Siam program settles down. You'd have to substitute 100 mm guns in mount and hoist for the 120s, and the fitting of misc. would have to be slightly higher for installing depth charges and Y guns.

H.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Aug 4th 2008, 9:11pm)


10

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 12:25am

RE: If you can make it work......

Quoted

Originally posted by howard
at about 1000 tons, Siam will be interested as soon as the build Siam program settles down. You'd have to substitute 100 mm guns in mount and hoist for the 120s, and the fitting of misc. would have to be slightly higher for installing depth charges and Y guns.

H.


I'll have a look.......
1000 light or standard?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Aug 5th 2008, 12:28am)


11

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 12:28am

3rd attempt.....

Old Drawing


New Drawing


And after drawing her, I thought she looked a little bare.....

Dagger (c), Denmark Torpedo boat laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,065 t light; 1,110 t standard; 1,209 t normal; 1,288 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
308.40 ft / 290.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
94.00 m / 88.39 m x 9.75 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline forward
2 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (1x2 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.91kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mount
on centreline amidships
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 219 lbs / 99 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 28,256 shp / 21,079 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 178 tons

Complement:
102 - 133

Cost:
£0.739 million / $2.957 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 20 tons, 1.7 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 571 tons, 47.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 407 tons, 33.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 144 tons, 11.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
402 lbs / 183 Kg = 7.6 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.380
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 22.00 ft / 6.71 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (57 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 15.19 ft / 4.63 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 173.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.8 %
Waterplane Area: 5,871 Square feet or 545 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 65 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 33 lbs/sq ft or 160 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.65
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

A limited ASW capability of 2 Short Rails and 2 DC Guns with a total of 30 depth charges is also carried.

Drawing edited to correct deck height error, bow error and a larger funnel

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Aug 5th 2008, 2:15pm)


12

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 12:39am

At Siam's request......

Grit (Dagger), Saim Torpedo boat laid down 1937

Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,029 t standard; 1,123 t normal; 1,198 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
309.81 ft / 290.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
94.43 m / 88.39 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline amidships
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 69 lbs / 31 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 27,049 shp / 20,178 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 168 tons

Complement:
96 - 126

Cost:
£0.661 million / $2.645 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 12 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 564 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 375 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 123 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
399 lbs / 181 Kg = 13.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.385
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (57 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 15.04 ft / 4.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.8 %
Waterplane Area: 5,883 Square feet or 547 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 151 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.42
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

A limited ASW capability of 2 Short Rails and 2 DC Guns with a total of 30 depth charges is also carried.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Aug 5th 2008, 12:39am)


13

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 1:47am

Minor nit, according to your picture all your 20mm seem to be side mounted and not centerline mounted. That would open up a weapons slot for a smaller MG caliber if you need it.

howard

Unregistered

14

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 3:30am

RE: At Siam's request......

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
Grit (Dagger), Saim Torpedo boat laid down 1937

Displacement:
1,000 t light; 1,029 t standard; 1,123 t normal; 1,198 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
309.81 ft / 290.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft (normal load)
94.43 m / 88.39 m x 9.75 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline amidships
4 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 69 lbs / 31 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
5th: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 27,049 shp / 20,178 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 168 tons

Complement:
96 - 126

Cost:
£0.661 million / $2.645 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 0.8 %
Armour: 12 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 564 tons, 50.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 375 tons, 33.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 123 tons, 10.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
399 lbs / 181 Kg = 13.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.385
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.06 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.92 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 35.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (57 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m (10.00 ft / 3.05 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Stern: 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
- Average freeboard: 15.04 ft / 4.58 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.8 %
Waterplane Area: 5,883 Square feet or 547 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 151 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.42
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

A limited ASW capability of 2 Short Rails and 2 DC Guns with a total of 30 depth charges is also carried.


Siam is mulling the design over and has these notes.
_______________________

1. Does not meet the 1000 ton limit standard displacement criterion. This restricts build criterion.
2. Weak hull.
3. Gun layout is adequate for current threat but is totally inadequate against projected threats.
4. Mount and hoist was specified for main armament-condition not met but acceptable.
5. Misc weight is just adequate to mount future electronics: if they should become available.
6. No. Y guns is half of a full pattern-minimum 4 required..
7. Requires Type 1 slip. If Siam is to build under license then turnaround times and build times inefficiently used.

H.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Aug 5th 2008, 3:52am)


15

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 3:50am

6 is actually present as "DC guns".

howard

Unregistered

16

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 3:57am

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
6 is actually present as "DC guns".


Noted. I had to go back and do an edit to clarify. Four bombs is a bracket pattern. Two off the rails and two DC guns is just adequate.

H.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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17

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 7:48am

Why place the TT banks aft on the lower deck where they will be washed over permanently in any seastate above 3 or some higher speeds?

There are some very good picture of the OTL DEUTSCHLANDs in the net showing how their stern TTs are washed over at higher speeds...

EDIT: Regarding tyour drawing - Why do the decks on Danish ships tend to have different height? And shouldn´t her funnel be a bit larger?

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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18

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 8:08am

RE: At Siam's request......

Quoted

Originally posted by howard

2. Weak hull.


Actually it's a normal hull for a vessel that size. per the gentlemens rule, .5 comp hull is the guideline for smaller ships.

Now the 399 survival is actually not so much hull, as SS interpreting that there is very little extra space below decks.

19

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 8:22am

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
There are some very good picture of the OTL DEUTSCHLANDs in the net showing how their stern TTs are washed over at higher speeds...

Curiosity piqued. Can you direct me to some? Not denying it happened, just curious about seeing pictures of it.

20

Tuesday, August 5th 2008, 1:09pm

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
EDIT: Regarding tyour drawing - Why do the decks on Danish ships tend to have different height? And shouldn´t her funnel be a bit larger?


Jaysus, they want a drawing yesterday, then complain when it ain't perfect..........

EDIT - Your right Hoo, was 2 pixels out.
Lower deck is now 1 pixel (6 inches) higher. "I" would put that down to strenghtening to take the weight of the gun mounts etc....... (aka Artistic Licence!!)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Commodore Green" (Aug 5th 2008, 1:33pm)