WesWorld

I am considering the options for refitting some of the Philippine Navys vessels in the 1945 timeframe; one of the classes under consideration is the Ticao class antiaircraft cruisers. There are two options  a small refit to add radar, and leave everything else as is, and a Level 3 refit to get the ships closer to what I would personally consider a good design. Id invite comment on the merits of either option, or suggestions for something in between.

The as-built Springsharp is:

Ticao, Philippine Light Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement: 5,522 t light; 5,875 t standard; 6,895 t normal; 7,710 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught

562.83 ft / 556.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 16.99 ft (normal load) [171.55 m / 169.47 m x 17.07 m x 5.18 m]

Armament:

12 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (6x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1935 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1935 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1935 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1935 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 780 lbs / 354 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.99" / 76 mm 379.99 ft / 115.82 m 8.99 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.99" / 76 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.01" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.01" / 51 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.01" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -

Armour deck: 1.42" / 36 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 58,394 shp / 43,562 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,835 tons

Complement: 377 - 491

Cost: £2.583 million / $10.332 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 97 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 1,100 tons, 16.0 %
- Belts: 421 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 113 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 544 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,659 tons, 24.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,415 tons, 35.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,373 tons, 19.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 8,240 lbs / 3,738 Kg = 177.6 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.456
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.93: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.49 ft / 7.77 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Stern: 14.01 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.5 %
Waterplane Area: 20,737 Square feet or 1,927 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 127 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 382 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 0.90
Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform



The Springsharp for the Level 3 refit works out as:


Ticao, Philippine Light Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement: 5,597 t light; 5,875 t standard; 6,895 t normal; 7,710 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
562.83 ft / 556.00 ft x 56.00 ft x 16.99 ft (normal load) [171.55 m / 169.47 m x 17.07 m x 5.18 m]

Armament:

8 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (4x2 guns), 46.40lbs / 21.05kg shells, 1935 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1935 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists on side ends, evenly spread
24 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1935 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 506 lbs / 229 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
8 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:

Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.99" / 76 mm 379.99 ft / 115.82 m 8.99 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.99" / 76 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.01" / 51 mm
2nd: 2.01" / 51 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 2.01" / 51 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -

Armour deck: 1.42" / 36 mm, Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:

Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 58,394 shp / 43,562 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 11,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,835 tons

Complement: 377 - 491

Cost: £2.450 million / $9.799 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:

Armament: 63 tons, 0.9 %
Armour: 1,065 tons, 15.4 %
- Belts: 421 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 79 tons, 1.1 %
- Armour Deck: 544 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 22 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,659 tons, 24.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,584 tons, 37.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,298 tons, 18.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 225 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 9,786 lbs / 4,439 Kg = 210.9 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.15
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:

Hull has a flush deck and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.456
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.93: 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.49 ft / 7.77 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.72 ft / 4.79 m
- Stern: 14.01 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 16.37 ft / 4.99 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:

Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.5 %
Waterplane Area: 20,737 Square feet or 1,927 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 135 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs/sq ft or 408 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.10
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Breakdown of Miscellaneous Weight

Radar - 50 tons - Added during refit
Tropicalization - 150 tons - Specified during refit
Reserved for future growth - 25 tons

Refit cost - 1,400 tons
Refit time - 110 days


Level 3 Refit: 25%

Two of six main battery mounts removed and replaced by twin 35mm mounts
Four of eight secondary battery mounts removed and replaced by twin 35mm mounts
All 13.7mm machinegun mounts removed
Radar added
Tropicalization specified as part of SLEP

I'd go for the Level 3, if for nothing else than it declutters the ship from all those guns! You'll be saving on manpower and probably open up the arcs a bit too.
Not really fond of a 115/75mm mix myself but there's not much you can do about that, replacing all the guns would not be cost effective.

De-clutter is a good work to describe the ship. I really cannot imaging the arcs of the 75s and 35s - they must be cheek-by-jowel. I wonder what comments were originally offered on the design.

I'd actually given thought to replacing the 115mm DP guns with 150mm LA guns and using them as straight light cruisers. I don't think the refit costs would be much different - since the Level 3 Refit covers guns 66-195mm not involving barbettes. My only concern would be the change to the magazine, and I think that throws it a level higher.

I'm a bit surprised you reduced the number of main guns on the Ticao class, but not the Poro class, which appears to me to be even smaller and more in need of a bit of lightening.

Have you considered using 10x115mm on this, and then dropping the Poro class down to 8x115mm?

I found that by cutting down on the overall number of guns on the Ticaos, I could raise the overall strength to 1.00 - which for me is important (I know the rules would allow for less, but call it a bias).

In the case of the Poros, I had previously investigated dropping the number of guns but no matter what I did I could not get to an overall strength of 1.00. So, for the Poros I chose a very minimal refit approach.

Are drawings available for either design? Might help to answer question to arcs etc.

In general I think reducing guns is a good idea as the original version was a bit overloaded.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Are drawings available for either design? Might help to answer question to arcs etc.

I did not design them; as far as I can recall, I haven't seen a drawing for them. I don't even know for certain who did design them; my *assumption* is Perdy for the Ticao, and Vukovlad is credited with the sim for Poro.