WesWorld

I'm collecting the set this year. There will be new destroyer, cruiser and battleship classes laid down, in addition to a goodly number of the mass-produced escorts.

First, the battleships. Four are to be built, based on the good performance of the earlier Invincible class, whilst adding some refinements possible due to the fact that they are, in fact, ten years later.

Deck armour consists of a 1" burster deck covering the entire ship, for protection against light aircraft bombs as well as to initiate AP shells before reaching the citadel. The central citadel receives a main deck thickness of 5", with a 4" thickness aft over steering gear and shafts.

Turrets are protected by a 6" roof, with 9.5" sides and a 11" rear plate. Provision is made for the carriage of four floatplanes, launched from a cross-deck catapult amidships.

HMS Nile, Royal Navy Battlecruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
38,062 t light; 39,978 t standard; 42,694 t normal; 44,866 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
811.47 ft / 806.00 ft x 106.00 ft x 31.80 ft (normal load)
247.33 m / 245.67 m x 32.31 m x 9.69 m

Armament:
9 - 15.00" / 381 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,938.00lbs / 879.06kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (10x2 guns), 62.00lbs / 28.12kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
48 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (6x8 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 18,779 lbs / 8,518 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.00" / 25 mm 480.00 ft / 146.30 m 28.00 ft / 8.53 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 7.00" / 178 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.24" / 133 mm, Conning tower: 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 130,950 shp / 97,689 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,889 tons

Complement:
1,484 - 1,930

Cost:
£16.306 million / $65.225 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,041 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 14,664 tons, 34.3 %
- Belts: 5,857 tons, 13.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 497 tons, 1.2 %
- Armament: 2,134 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 6,018 tons, 14.1 %
- Conning Tower: 158 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 3,865 tons, 9.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 17,393 tons, 40.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,631 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
66,562 lbs / 30,192 Kg = 39.4 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 9.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 31.00 ft / 9.45 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (70 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Stern: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Average freeboard: 23.65 ft / 7.21 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 183.9 %
Waterplane Area: 62,075 Square feet or 5,767 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 204 lbs/sq ft or 997 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.38
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The new J Class cruisers receive a transom stern, as well as a triple 6" gun mounting and the new 3.7" HA/LA gun.

J Class, United Kingdom Light Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
7,619 t light; 7,974 t standard; 9,558 t normal; 10,825 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
578.65 ft / 567.00 ft x 62.00 ft x 19.50 ft (normal load)
176.37 m / 172.82 m x 18.90 m x 5.94 m

Armament:
9 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (3x3 guns), 112.00lbs / 50.80kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 3.70" / 94.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 28.00lbs / 12.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.59" / 40.5 mm guns (1x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
12 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,369 lbs / 621 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.50" / 64 mm 415.00 ft / 126.49 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 74,996 shp / 55,947 Kw = 32.30 kts
Range 12,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,850 tons

Complement:
483 - 628

Cost:
£3.242 million / $12.967 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 163 tons, 1.7 %
Armour: 1,241 tons, 13.0 %
- Belts: 427 tons, 4.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 146 tons, 1.5 %
- Armour Deck: 668 tons, 7.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,214 tons, 23.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,852 tons, 40.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,939 tons, 20.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,027 lbs / 6,816 Kg = 139.1 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.32

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.488
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Mid (58 %): 25.00 ft / 7.62 m (17.00 ft / 5.18 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 22.51 ft / 6.86 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 164.2 %
Waterplane Area: 24,088 Square feet or 2,238 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 480 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.95
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Misc. Weight includes:

Provision for 3 aircraft (only two usually carried)
8 reload torpedoes and handling gear

The D Class destroyers are an unexciting development of the A Class, just with some newer kit aboard. Usual fit, with the ASDIC set and depth charges provided.

D Class, Royal Navy Destroyer laid down 1932

Displacement:
1,503 t light; 1,592 t standard; 1,793 t normal; 1,953 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
383.74 ft / 375.00 ft x 33.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
116.96 m / 114.30 m x 10.06 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
6 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (3x2 guns), 62.00lbs / 28.12kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in one mount, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline forward, 2 raised guns - superfiring
8 - 0.55" / 14.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.08lbs / 0.04kg shells, 1932 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 381 lbs / 173 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
6 - 24.5" / 622.3 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 36,001 shp / 26,857 Kw = 33.99 kts
Range 4,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 361 tons

Complement:
137 - 179

Cost:
£0.939 million / $3.757 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 40 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 7 tons, 0.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 0.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 860 tons, 48.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 556 tons, 31.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 290 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
457 lbs / 207 Kg = 8.8 x 4.7 " / 119 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.390
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.36 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (34 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m (11.00 ft / 3.35 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Stern: 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
- Average freeboard: 14.31 ft / 4.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 176.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 76.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,863 Square feet or 730 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 72 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 174 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.69
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Interesting. Are you staying with the internal and inclined armour with HMS Nile? Might have a few problems fitting a 20ft belt in there. Or the deck is raised up 1 level, but that leaves no room for a burster deck. Would you like me to send you a sim of G3 and/or KGV and Vanguard?

Didn't the Royal Navy stick with twin turrets for their cruisers for some reason? Or did I miss something while looking over the British treaty cruisers?

The British heavy cruisers all mounted twins, IIRC, but the CLs went to triple turrets with the weird offset centre gun.

Your right. Guess I forgot.

Hmmm, interesting. The UK went from a 4" secondary mounting on it's cruisers down to a 3.7", while Germany (in the recent past) went from a 3.5" secondary up to a 4.1".

HMS Nile looks like a good solid vessel, with speed, firepower, and pretty good at sea behavior as well.

HMS NILE seems to be similar to RSAN IMPERATOR to some degree but quite different in detail.

For example the british ship completely lacks a heavy secondary battery but still has a higher weight on her broadside because much, much heavier shells are used. One wonders why the British decided to go for the heavy/superheavy shells?

NILE also used a transome stern where IMPERATOR has none resulting in a higher speed at a lower power level thus needing a smaller plant only. However, the difference is of no real effect during life at sea.

In general NILE´s armor suit seems to be weaker (much weaker on the main guns but also remarkably so regarding deck armor) but her belt covers a much larger area. One again wonders why the British chosed to have such a weight expensive belt?

Their decision to use superheavy shell indicates they are up for long range battles where deck armor is more important than belt armor. Still their deck/belt armor used seems to indicate theiy expect battles at ranges where belt armor is more important.

Well historically the Royal Navy used 1920lb shells as standard.

The heavy shell is exactly the same as the historical Mark XVIIb shell, which is in turn only 18lbs heavier than the 1,920lbs shells used originally for the Queen Elizabeths. They fought, of course, at the sort of ranges where belt protection is of more importance.

RA, you raise a good point on fitting in the (admittedly rather tall) protection scheme. I may revise the deck arrangement, probably just dropping the burster and adding about the same thickness to the main armoured decks.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Hmmm, interesting. The UK went from a 4" secondary mounting on it's cruisers down to a 3.7", while Germany (in the recent past) went from a 3.5" secondary up to a 4.1".

Political move, of course. The Navy would very much like to keep the 4", for logistical reasons, if nothing else. They've got a boatload of 4" guns floating about, which happen to be very good guns. But the Government said the Army and Navy needed the same gun, and the Army wouldn't have a Navy gun as its' main artillery piece.

The Navy isn't too happy about the new machine guns, either; they think 0.55 inches is a bloody silly calibre, which nobody else uses and which, though bigger than the 0.303" guns occasionally set up by the Marines, is only just big enough to need a lot of space, whilst not having the range they'd like to have.

Quoted

For example the british ship completely lacks a heavy secondary battery but still has a higher weight on her broadside because much, much heavier shells are used. One wonders why the British decided to go for the heavy/superheavy shells?

The shells are the normal ones for the 15"/42 gun. We guessed that the Invincibles used the new 15"/50 design with a 2600-2700fpm from the F2 and F3 designs. Maybe now its replaced with a built-up 15"/45 after the Adm decides that barrel life is more important.

20x4.7"/50 guns would seem to be a reasonably heavy secondary battery with the 62lb shell. However, the gun probably isn't suited that well to HA firing, so I'd use either the 4.7"/40 /43 or Vickers /45

The deep armour belt gives more armoured volume, placing it externally would increase this even more, but at the expense of protection.

What counts as a long range battle? Standard practice is to close the range to about 10,000yds where the shells will penetrate just about anything.

The 0.55" is not too bad, at this time, certainly the Indian Navy has been happy with it's 15mm, which is only a little bigger at 0.60". And political directives are certainly understood.

I think the reasons for the differences, Hoo, are that Imperator is a bulged design (which saves a lot on it's deck armor), and Nile is both faster and has a better sea-boat rating. To get that better seaboat rating at a higher (if not a lot) speed, there's going to be a price paid for the higher freeboard.

Quoted

The 0.55" is not too bad, at this time, certainly the Indian Navy has been happy with it's 15mm, which is only a little bigger at 0.60".

And the Philippines also eagerly adopted the Italian 13.7mm (0.54") MG...

Chile still uses a typical 0.5" machine gun (probably Browning).

You could use the 0.661" Vickers gun firing a 85g bullet at 1000m/s and 300rpm in six-barrel mounting.

Swampy, the 13.7mm calibre was a mistake on my part, it should have been 13.2mm. There aren't many Italian ships mounting those mgs any more, the Oerlikon FFL purchased is much superior, having a similar rate of fire and much greater destructive power. Now the FFL is being replaced with the OtoBreda-Marden 25mm (similar to historical Breda 20mm)

Going with the bulges sacrifices deckspace for light AA and survivability. It does give a useful saving in armour weight.

The Brazilian navy adopted the Filpino preference for the 13.7mm, although they're modified Brownings instead of the Italian weapons.

Quoted

Swampy, the 13.7mm calibre was a mistake on my part, it should have been 13.2mm.

Well it's a mistake the Phils are happy was made. ;-)

Interesting comparison; Italy is moving from the MGs to the 20mm to the 25mm, while the Philippines dropped the 25mm calibre in favour of standardising on quad (Buzzsaw) MGs and twin (later, also quad) 35mm.