WesWorld

In 1935 there will not be many new designs for the RSAN. Consolidation of what is already on the slips and many refits and rebuilds will dominate the work to do. However, some minor combatants will be added. Here´s one:



South African Light Destroyer laid down 1935

Displacement:
714 t light; 761 t standard; 865 t normal; 948 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
253,82 ft / 246,06 ft x 26,90 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
77,37 m / 75,00 m x 8,20 m x 3,40 m

Armament:
4 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 203 lbs / 92 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,98" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21.447 shp / 16.000 Kw = 31,61 kts
Range 6.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons

Complement:
79 - 103

Cost:
£0,519 million / $2,075 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 2,9%
Armour: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 397 tons, 45,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 262 tons, 30,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 151 tons, 17,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
237 lbs / 107 Kg = 5,1 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,08
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 12,6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,83

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 84
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Mid (45%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m (8,86 ft / 2,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Stern: 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Average freeboard: 12,86 ft / 3,92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 68,8%
Waterplane Area: 4.255 Square feet or 395 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 138 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 3,72
- Overall: 0,61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

And even a "good seaboat" at this size is a wet ride. This one will take waves over the stern at anchor!

Looks like too much attempted on such a small ship. Over the Type 0 slip too.

No torpedoes on drawing, indeed not even room for them! Those ships will be very wet in open waters, not sure I'd want to be a sailor on one...

Quoted

This one will take waves over the stern at anchor!

An excellent opportunity to teach the crew how to swim. Put them on the stern and let the waves wash them away. Anyone who drowns fails the test...

Quoted

No torpedoes on drawing, indeed not even room for them!

Either he forgot them or there is some crude system where the torpedoes are pushed off the deck and into the water by the crew on the one place where there is space: the stern (considering what Admiral K said, would it be a good idea to have not only the crew washed off the stern, but the torpedoes as well).
I would think that it might be possible to fit a 1x4 launcher in the middle when the stack is pushed a bit further forward into the forward superstructure and shorten the aft superstructure with some covering deck running over it so light stuff could be placed on top of that deck.

Quoted

Those ships will be very wet in open waters, not sure I'd want to be a sailor on one...

At such a point, I usually say: It ain't no bloody cruise ship!!!
I would think that it is function over comfort with ships of that size.

Thanks, those are useful comments. My answers below:

Regarding those torpedos: I originally wanted them but when drawing the ship I noted there is hardly enough deck space available. Even without she looked quite cramped (just as her report says). I thus cancelled the TTs but kept them in her sim. SS doesn´t add weight for TTs, as I understand it, but they are part of the room calculations and thus help to add the "cramped" warning which seems just realistic. However, if you guys think it´s better to remove them from the sim I´ll do so....!?

"wet forward" - Well, that´s just realistic for such a ship. Some time ago I decided to accept a lower rating than 1.0 if other gains offweight it. SS just asks for unrealistic high freeboards on fast units such as DDs or cruisers to get to seaworthiness 1.0. Take a look at historical DD or DDE designs. Their sterns are hardly 2,5 to 3m above their standard waterline. So with 2,7m aft my design shouldn´t be too far off.

Further more we all know that OTL DDs and smaller vessels were very wet ships in everything above beaufort 4 and soon were reduced in performance. On a ship half the size of a standard DD this should be true too. So I don´t worry about the warning. Other designs seaboat qualities are better (see my LD23-class for example) but in face of a storm it will hardly help them....and the warning doesn´t say the ship will turn turtle or something. It just has reduced performance.

I don´t care if she´s longer than type 0. Everything shorter would have forced me to erase one main gun mount.

"Looks like too much attempted on such a small ship." - You really think so? Compared to some WW-designs I would have expected some commets like "Hey, can´t you get another two main guns on her?". There are other designs around in WW where such words would apply much better. The LD35 doesn´t compare too badly to a HUNT I-class DE (which would be 200ts heavier, 8m longer, adds another two main guns and a torpedo bank) or the German Type 23-class torpedo boats which too were about 200ts heavier but faster, 11m longer, carried 6 TTs but only three main guns. Finally the Italian La Masa, Audace and Palestro-classes are about identical to LD in size, firepower (but add TTs), speed and overall dimensions - they just don´t look as cool! ;o)

I think it looks quite cool too...

Do you really need a quad 40mm on such a vessel? Given its disposable nature you could skip the quad and use the weight for other stuff and/or extra space.

Perhaps I've been a bit unfair, she is very much like my Indomita Class torpedo boats in armament and speed but they are a bit longer than your design. And the real-world designs you quote makes your design look quite good given SS doesn't allow to copy fast light DDs accurately.

Ok, time for my comments (don't worry Hoo I'll be kind to her).

Personally, I'd raise everything aft of the main mast up onto a shelter deck, uncluding the aft guns.
I'd place the aft main guns in sheilded mounts rather than a fully inclosed turret like the fore turret.
As Walter said you could place TT's aboard under a covering deck but I'd ditch em, from the sim and all, I think even without them in the sim SS will still give you the cramped notation.

I'd also give her smaller, less technically advanced dirrectors, she looks like a cheap ship that can be produced in large numbers, best to keep her equipment simple as well. You also might want to redesign her bridge structure to be smaller and more compact to save on top weight, obviously her sim states she's ok for stability but I assume SS would presume she has a small superstructure.

One things for sure, Its nice to see someone producing small designs in a post treaty era and not larger ones!

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
One things for sure, Its nice to see someone producing small designs in a post treaty era and not larger ones!

You know, I´m "devoted" to small designs somehow...;o)

All the equipement used - guns, mounts, directors etc. - are standard among RSAN units. Realistically one can assume different marks/versions are available. For LD35 less complex variants will be used. This was common practice in OTL navies like the Kriegsmarine for example.

Quoted

One things for sure, Its nice to see someone producing small designs in a post treaty era and not larger ones!

Hey! Germany's producing a new class of patrol boats, the VP-11s. They're under 300 tons, so they're small......

I'm working on several small ships too,but my main problem is that there is so much to do in the "big ships" category that I don't know how much will I be able to invest in the destroyer escort and smaller sized ships...

Here´s the modified version without the TTs:

South African Light Destroyer laid down 1935

Displacement:
714 t light; 761 t standard; 865 t normal; 948 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
253,82 ft / 246,06 ft x 26,90 ft x 11,15 ft (normal load)
77,37 m / 75,00 m x 8,20 m x 3,40 m

Armament:
4 - 4,53" / 115 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46,40lbs / 21,05kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns (3 mounts), 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
6 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (4 mounts), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 203 lbs / 92 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1,38" / 35 mm 0,98" / 25 mm -
3rd: 0,59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0,39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21.447 shp / 16.000 Kw = 31,61 kts
Range 6.500nm at 12,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 187 tons

Complement:
79 - 103

Cost:
£0,519 million / $2,075 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 25 tons, 2,9%
Armour: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Belts: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 15 tons, 1,7%
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0,0%
Machinery: 397 tons, 45,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 262 tons, 30,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 151 tons, 17,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 1,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
241 lbs / 109 Kg = 5,2 x 4,5 " / 115 mm shells or 0,2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,12
Metacentric height 0,9 ft / 0,3 m
Roll period: 12,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,84

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0,410
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,15 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18,25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 73 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 84
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21,33 ft / 6,50 m
- Forecastle (25%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m
- Mid (45%): 16,73 ft / 5,10 m (8,86 ft / 2,70 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Stern: 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
- Average freeboard: 12,86 ft / 3,92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 174,1%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117,8%
Waterplane Area: 4.255 Square feet or 395 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 60%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 28 lbs/sq ft or 138 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,50
- Longitudinal: 3,72
- Overall: 0,61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather