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1

Monday, September 13th 2004, 10:05pm

1925 Filipino Samal-class Battlecruiser

From SR Shivagi to you, thanks Rocky! :)



Beam 91.2 feet outside bulges; 80.0 feet inside

[SIZE=3]

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Filipino Samal-class battlecruiser, laid down 1925 

     Length, 750 ft x Beam, 91.2 ft x Depth, 26.0 ft 
          26422 tons normal displacement (24131 tons standard) 

     Main battery:       6 x 12.00-inch / 305mm 55-cal (3 x 2; 1 superfiring) 
     Secondary battery: 10 x  6.10-inch / 155mm 52-cal (5 x 2) 
     AA battery:        18 x  3.94-inch / 100mm 52-cal
     Light battery:     16 x  1.57-inch / 40mm
     MG battery:         4 x  0.54-inch / 13.7mm

          Weight of broadside: 7559 lbs 

     8 TT, 21.0" (provision for 24")

     Main belt, 8.0 inches; ends unarmored 
     Torpedo bulkhead, 1.0 inches 
     Armor deck, average 3.0 inches 
     C.T., 5.0 inches 

     Battery armor: 
          Main, 8.0" / secondary, 3.0" 
          AA, 1.0" shields / light guns, 0.5" shields  

     Maximum speed for 145542 shp = 32.00 knots 
          Approximate cruising radius, 15000 nm / 12 kts 

     Typical complement: 1036-1347 


                    Estimated cost, $28.696 million (£7.174 million) 

          Remarks: 

     Relative extent of belt armor, 109 percent of 'typical' coverage. 

     Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform. 

     Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space. 


          Distribution of weights: 
                                                       Percent 
                                                       normal 
                                                    displacement: 

          Armament .........................    863 tons =   3 pct 
          Armor, total .....................   6675 tons =  25 pct 

               Belt                            2039 tons =   8 pct 
               Torpedo bulkhead                 469 tons =   2 pct 
               Deck                            2449 tons =   9 pct 
               C.T.                              96 tons =   0 pct 
               Armament                        1622 tons =   6 pct 

          Machinery ........................   4725 tons =  18 pct 
          Hull and fittings; equipment .....  10665 tons =  40 pct 
          Fuel, ammunition, stores .........   3394 tons =  13 pct 
          Miscellaneous weights ............    100 tons =   0 pct 
                                              ----- 
                                              26422 tons = 100 pct 

          Estimated metacentric height, 5.4 ft 

     Displacement summary: 

          Light ship:             23028 tons 
          Standard displacement:  24131 tons 
          Normal service:         26422 tons 
          Full load:              28149 tons 

          Loading submergence 1261 tons/foot 

     +++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


     Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability: 

          Relative margin of stability: 1.12 

          Shellfire needed to sink: 25226 lbs = 29.2 x 12.0-inch shells 
               (Approximates weight of penetrating 
               shell hits needed to sink ship, 
               not counting critical hits) 

          Torpedoes needed to sink: 3.2 
               (Approximates number of 'typical' 
               torpedo hits needed to sink ship) 

          Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent 
               (50 percent is 'average') 

          Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.46 

          Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.12 

     +++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


     Hull form characteristics: 

          Block coefficient: 0.52 
          Sharpness coefficient: 0.36 
          Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 7.70 
          'Natural speed' for length = 27.4 knots 
          Power going to wave formation 
               at top speed: 53 percent 


     Estimated hull characteristics and strength: 

          Relative underwater volume absorbed by 
               magazines and engineering spaces: 108 percent 

          Relative accommodation and working space: 176 percent 


          Displacement factor: 116 percent 
               (Displacement relative to loading factors) 


          Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00 
               (Structure weight per square 
               foot of hull surface: 162 lbs) 

          Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.19 
               (for 23.0 ft average freeboard; 
               freeboard adjustment +4.6 ft) 

          Relative composite hull strength: 1.02 

     +++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1] 

750.00 x 91.20 x 26.00; 23.00 -- Dimensions 
0.52 -- Block coefficient 
1925 -- Year laid down 
32.00 / 15000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise 
100 tons -- Miscellaneous weights 
++++++++++ 
6 x 12.00; 3; 1 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring 
   : 
10 x 6.10; 5 -- Secondary battery; turrets 
   : 
18 x 3.94 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery 
  Gun-shields 
   : 
16 x 1.57 -- Fourth (light) battery 
8 / 0 / 24.00 -- TT / submerged / size 
++++++++++ 
8.00 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 1.00; 109 -- Belt armor; relative extent 
3.00 / 5.00 -- Deck / CT 
8.00 / 3.00 / 1.00 / 0.50 -- Battery armor 


     +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[/SIZE]

2

Monday, September 13th 2004, 10:16pm

interesting opponent for El Cid ...

3

Monday, September 13th 2004, 10:38pm

With a beam of 80ft, and a displacement of 21000t you really, really should put a torpedo bulkhead on her.

Interesting match for El Cid, more guns will probably win through, as the 240mm gun can still penetrate 8" at most ranges, and there are double the amount.

I've noticed something that'll give El Cid the advantage; there is no room to train the main turrets, if El Cid stays broadside on, its easy :) Have a look what she looks like with 3 funnels as well; she's carrying almost the same horsepower to HMS Hood.

I have a few comparable designs, however; they are 3000t smaller, have thicker armour and 2knts less speed.

4

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 12:34am

She's a mighty big target!
(Note to self - Increase STC deployment to far east!!)

5

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 1:18am

LOL, Gavin, you're right! stay on her beam and let her run into some torps while pounding the &^£&£&$£! out of her ;-)

6

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 1:44am

Thanks for pointing out the turret issue. :) I've rearranged some bits and using the 'PhotoShop ROTATE Test' they should be clear now.

Torpedo bulkhead - been there, tried that, saw the torpedo resistance go down, not to mention that I'd have to reduce the speed a bit to recover the hull strength/space. First-of-class doesn't lay down until Q3/25, however, so it's possible that I might stick bulges on her before then.

As for El Cid, the solution is simple. Chase salvoes until you're in 155mm range, then turn broadside and fire away. ;) Seriously, tho, if one of these encounters The Ciddo, it'll probably call in a DD charge before heading in itself. Not to mention the fact that the 305/55 probably outranges EC's 240s.

I have a plan for these ships....the Marina de Filipinas plans to have a "decent" fleet by 1943 (so nobody start any reset-button-provoking wars until then! :-P ). Each Samal will be the flagship of a Cruiser Force, with the following composition:

1 light BC
1 AC
1 CA
3 CL
1 CV
3 DD

7

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 1:47am

BTW, Commodore...

With 18 x 100mm, any Danish PT boats that cross her path will be in for a rude surprise. ;)

"You're in for a surprise, aren't you, my dear Doctor. An exceedingly nasty one..."

8

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 7:20am

I hope El Cids 9.45" Guns have the same range as a typical 12" gun because she is going to need it if the Samal decides to maintain the range with her comparable speed.

At extreme range Samal has better deck protection (3") against the 9.45" in comparison to the El Cid's 1.97" against 12" guns.

9

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 5:01pm

DD charge against El Cid? Well, El Cid usually operates together with the Avada Kedavras. Good luck to your DDs then ....

extreme range salvoes, point well taken.

there is a gentleman's agreement in place IIRC that over 17 kton we use torpedo bulkheads. That is also historically correct. And the Torpedo resistance going down - Ian?

But we have been through this, anybody remember where that thread is? El Cid does have one, if she didn't she'd be more comparable armour-wise to Samal.

10

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 5:19pm

I'll see about tacking on some bulges then...

The Filipino Secret Projects Office has begun work on "El Cidbuster", with 16 x 240mm... ;)

11

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 5:37pm

Quoted

there is a gentleman's agreement in place IIRC that over 17 kton we use torpedo bulkheads. That is also historically correct. And the Torpedo resistance going down - Ian?

Well, as I mentioned before, I never agreed to it. :-))
But thinking of it now, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a ship of similar displacement that is shorter and wider (I don't know how much. Perhaps 500x100) that the torpedo resistance would go up if you add an inch of TBH (and perhaps not). Could anyone check that out? I don't have any SS versions around here.

HoOmAn

Keeper of the Sacred Block Coefficient

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12

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 5:45pm

Quoted

Originally posted by LordArpad
there is a gentleman's agreement in place IIRC that over 17 kton we use torpedo bulkheads. That is also historically correct.


Can´t find it right now but you´re right - above 17kts a TDS should be installed.

13

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 5:48pm

Aside from the bulges (which I'll add in a bit), what do you think of her layout?

14

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 6:06pm

Added a torpedo bulkhead; increased the beam by 14%. Torpedo resistance went up from 2.6 to 3.2. Also made the stacks bigger.

15

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 7:08pm

"Can´t find it right now but you´re right - above 17kts a TDS should be installed."

If thats the case, Alaska will not exist in the wesworld, then again will they get wind of supercruisers built by japan and build something very similar?

16

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 8:23pm

Quoted

If thats the case, Alaska will not exist in the wesworld, then again will they get wind of supercruisers built by japan and build something very similar?

Could happen. You never know.

17

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 10:12pm

Hmmm...

Excellent speed and good range.

But that's significant tonnage just to get 6 12" guns afloat.

Refit and Repair go one knot slower, but pack 6x15" on only 10% greater tonnage. That's double the punch of Samal...

And I'm not convinced of the usefulness of a BC like that, as opposed to the fast BB, in the Wesworld.

Fleet scout? Aircraft have taken that over.

Raider? Aircraft are a big problem for you, and 32 knots speed dosen't help that at all.

Class A cruiser killer? Don't need >20,000 tons for that.

Killer of Class A cruiser killers? Here's a possibility, although there aren't many of them and they're mostly in the Atlantic. The meeting of Samal and El Cid is unlikely.

Nightime hunter of detached CVs? Class A cruisers do that just fine.

Its tough for me to see 6 12" guns being worth the investment of 24,000 tons.

Now convince me ;-)

18

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 11:10pm

Well, he could always decrease speed and range and add more armor and make a coastal defense battleship. I actually made such a ship based on the old Fuji class BB (only slightly bigger and more modern). Once I am back home, I'll take another look at it and perhaps adjust it a bit.

19

Tuesday, September 14th 2004, 11:41pm

My thinking is, this is the first 'proper' capital ship the Filipinos have built (Basilan is just an overgrown Type A cruiser), so they might be a little on the unbalanced size.

The plan for these ships is - as I noted earlier - to be "Cruiser Squadron Flagships", or you might say "Cruiser Leaders". ;)

I might play around with the design a bit - Q3/25 is still a ways off. Wonder if I might be able to fit 8 x 283mm on them?...

20

Wednesday, September 15th 2004, 12:12am

Well, you could try. You never know what you might end up with.