WesWorld

An enlarged Bialy Lew Cruiser. Armor is increased, AA protection increases and one of the 150mm turrets is replaced by a 283mm dual turret. The problem I see is lack of effective secondaries. Feel free to discuss.

Czialy Lew, Poland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
15,123 t light; 15,964 t standard; 16,782 t normal; 17,435 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
598.46 ft / 590.55 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
182.41 m / 180.00 m x 24.00 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (2x3 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (1x2 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward, all raised guns
3 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (1x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 5,870 lbs / 2,663 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 431.10 ft / 131.40 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 431.10 ft / 131.40 m 21.10 ft / 6.43 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.1" / 283 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.1" / 283 mm
2nd: 11.1" / 283 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 11.1" / 283 mm
3rd: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 11.14" / 283 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 62,257 shp / 46,444 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,471 tons

Complement:
736 - 958

Cost:
£7.567 million / $30.267 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 734 tons, 4.4 %
Armour: 4,631 tons, 27.6 %
- Belts: 1,138 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 662 tons, 3.9 %
- Armament: 1,689 tons, 10.1 %
- Armour Deck: 984 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 157 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,726 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,982 tons, 47.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,658 tons, 9.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,824 lbs / 13,074 Kg = 41.7 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.23 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (14 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Stern: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Average freeboard: 22.71 ft / 6.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 195.1 %
Waterplane Area: 33,785 Square feet or 3,139 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 799 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.83
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

No Heavy AA, this is a target for Dive-bomber methinks

New version with dual guns and have to reduce armor a little bit to keep the hull strength over 1.

Czialy Lew, Poland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
15,060 t light; 15,964 t standard; 16,782 t normal; 17,435 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
598.46 ft / 590.55 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
182.41 m / 180.00 m x 24.00 m x 7.00 m

Armament:
6 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (2x3 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (1x2 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward, all raised guns
3 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (1x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
16 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (8x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 6,495 lbs / 2,946 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 431.10 ft / 131.40 m 10.66 ft / 3.25 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 431.10 ft / 131.40 m 21.10 ft / 6.43 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
2nd: 9.84" / 250 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 9.84" / 250 mm
3rd: 5.91" / 150 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.20" / 5 mm -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 62,257 shp / 46,444 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,471 tons

Complement:
736 - 958

Cost:
£7.913 million / $31.651 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 812 tons, 4.8 %
Armour: 4,485 tons, 26.7 %
- Belts: 1,138 tons, 6.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 662 tons, 3.9 %
- Armament: 1,561 tons, 9.3 %
- Armour Deck: 984 tons, 5.9 %
- Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,726 tons, 10.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,988 tons, 47.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,722 tons, 10.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,600 lbs / 12,519 Kg = 39.9 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 4.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 4.0 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.23 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (14 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Quarterdeck (13 %): 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Stern: 22.31 ft / 6.80 m
- Average freeboard: 22.71 ft / 6.92 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 195.1 %
Waterplane Area: 33,785 Square feet or 3,139 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 800 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.84
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Hi,
Czialy Lew? There is no "czialy" word in polish language. There is "Bialy" (white, Bialy Lew = White Lion) or "Czarny" (black).
In "polish navy" were Zolty Lew (Yellow Lion) and Bialy Lew, there was no Czarny Lew.

btw. http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okrty_polskie_do_XVII_wieku

Trimmed this down from an 8*11inch gun 28knot BB design I produced for Marek.

Czialy Lew, Poland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
15,035 t light; 15,944 t standard; 16,776 t normal; 17,442 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
638.04 ft / 630.00 ft x 78.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
194.47 m / 192.02 m x 23.77 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
8 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (4x2 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (8x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 6,648 lbs / 3,015 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.50" / 165 mm 450.00 ft / 137.16 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 450.00 ft / 137.16 m 24.00 ft / 7.32 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 10.0" / 254 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 61,895 shp / 46,173 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,497 tons

Complement:
736 - 958

Cost:
£7.988 million / $31.951 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 831 tons, 5.0 %
Armour: 5,142 tons, 30.6 %
- Belts: 1,348 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 599 tons, 3.6 %
- Armament: 1,708 tons, 10.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,345 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 141 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,715 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,247 tons, 43.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,742 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
24,201 lbs / 10,977 Kg = 35.0 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.91 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (40 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Mid (45 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 20.56 ft / 6.27 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.0 %
Waterplane Area: 36,361 Square feet or 3,378 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 703 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.19
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

I'd scrap the aft 6" turret and replace it with another 11" gun, use any weight savings for some 37mm AA guns.

9*11inch version with slightly lighter armour.

Czialy Lew, Poland Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
15,087 t light; 16,058 t standard; 16,910 t normal; 17,591 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
643.04 ft / 635.00 ft x 78.00 ft x 21.00 ft (normal load)
196.00 m / 193.55 m x 23.77 m x 6.40 m

Armament:
9 - 11.14" / 283 mm guns (3x3 guns), 691.56lbs / 313.69kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (8x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,340 lbs / 3,329 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 435.00 ft / 132.59 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.50" / 38 mm 435.00 ft / 132.59 m 22.00 ft / 6.71 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 9.00" / 229 mm
2nd: 5.75" / 146 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 3.50" / 89 mm
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 9.75" / 248 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 62,055 shp / 46,293 Kw = 28.00 kts
Range 5,100nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,534 tons

Complement:
740 - 963

Cost:
£8.397 million / $33.589 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 917 tons, 5.4 %
Armour: 4,699 tons, 27.8 %
- Belts: 1,101 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 531 tons, 3.1 %
- Armament: 1,573 tons, 9.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,356 tons, 8.0 %
- Conning Tower: 138 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 1,720 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,701 tons, 45.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,822 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
23,373 lbs / 10,602 Kg = 33.8 x 11.1 " / 283 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.74
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.569
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.01 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (40 %): 24.75 ft / 7.54 m
- Mid (45 %): 24.75 ft / 7.54 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 20.78 ft / 6.33 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.3 %
Waterplane Area: 36,650 Square feet or 3,405 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 740 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

What´s the most likely opponent of her?

What´s her most likely mission?



To me she´s a very unbalanced design I´d never build if I´d be the one in charge in Poland. Her armor is weaker than of some category A treaty cruisers and offers no real protection against 210mm shells. Especially her deck armor is very weak - in an environment where planes can reach and bomb every spot. On the other hand she has capital ship armament of the weakest kind - not enough to take on the big buddies and way overkill against any kind of known cruiser.

But wait - her speed is so low she might not even catch a single cruiser.

To sum it up: She´s too weak to fight what she can catch and too slow to catch what she can fight.

Doesn´t make much sense to me.

I agree, ditch some armour and add some speed. That would allow her to engage CA's who, for the most part, in Wesworld are capable of 30-33 knots.

Given her size a 12x8" main armament would seem more usefull or even something along 9.2"

I am reminded of this vessel.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/solida_f.htm

That said the likely opponents this vessel would be designed to counter would be German, Russian, Danish, and Nordmark warships.

Zolty Lew ? Class, Polish Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
14,418 t light; 15,149 t standard; 16,437 t normal; 17,468 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
718.04 ft / 710.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 20.75 ft (normal load)
218.86 m / 216.41 m x 21.64 m x 6.32 m

Armament:
12 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (3 mounts), 330.69lbs / 150.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 6 raised guns - superfiring
16 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (8x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,649 lbs / 2,109 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 440.00 ft / 134.11 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.25" / 83 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 11.00" / 279 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 91,119 shp / 67,975 Kw = 31.50 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,319 tons

Complement:
725 - 943

Cost:
£7.013 million / $28.051 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 509 tons, 3.1 %
Armour: 3,990 tons, 24.3 %
- Belts: 1,109 tons, 6.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 695 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,033 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 153 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 2,525 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,344 tons, 44.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,019 tons, 12.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
28,103 lbs / 12,747 Kg = 99.5 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 16.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.91
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (23.25 ft / 7.09 m aft of break)
- Mid (55 %): 23.25 ft / 7.09 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.25 ft / 4.04 m (23.25 ft / 7.09 m before break)
- Stern: 13.25 ft / 4.04 m
- Average freeboard: 22.88 ft / 6.97 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 199.3 %
Waterplane Area: 36,626 Square feet or 3,403 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 659 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.26
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by seawolf
Hi,
Czialy Lew? There is no "czialy" word in polish language. There is "Bialy" (white, Bialy Lew = White Lion) or "Czarny" (black).
In "polish navy" were Zolty Lew (Yellow Lion) and Bialy Lew, there was no Czarny Lew.

btw. http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okrty_polskie_do_XVII_wieku

My mistake. It was supposed to be Czarny Lew. I don't know how I got the names mixed up.

Also the Bialy Lew and the Zolty Lew are already in the Polish Fleet. Check the cruisers.

I was trying to follow the historical Polish plan for their fleet but is impossible with the resources available in WW. By the middle of 1937 the Polish leaders will recognize constructing three battlecruisers will be a strain to their resources. They will cancel their third planned battlecruiser and I'm just looking for replacements for that allocated tonnage. This cruiser was an enlarged Zialy Lew type cruiser but I agree is too slow to be cruisers and too weakly armed also.

Second attempt at a 12*210mm gun version, without my silly errors:-

Czarny Lew Class, Polish Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
14,403 t light; 15,134 t standard; 16,437 t normal; 17,480 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
718.04 ft / 710.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 20.75 ft (normal load)
218.86 m / 216.41 m x 21.64 m x 6.32 m

Armament:
12 - 8.27" / 210 mm guns (4x3 guns), 330.69lbs / 150.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (8x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x3 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,649 lbs / 2,109 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.25" / 83 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 91,119 shp / 67,975 Kw = 31.50 kts
Range 8,099nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,346 tons

Complement:
725 - 943

Cost:
£7.010 million / $28.040 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 509 tons, 3.1 %
Armour: 4,078 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 1,066 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 853 tons, 5.2 %
- Armour Deck: 2,033 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,525 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,241 tons, 44.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,034 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,677 lbs / 12,554 Kg = 97.9 x 8.3 " / 210 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m aft of break)
- Mid (55 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m before break)
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 22.68 ft / 6.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.1 %
Waterplane Area: 36,626 Square feet or 3,403 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 124 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 651 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Or if you want a little more firepower, but don't mind a few less guns, there is a possibility to mount 9*240mm guns, with the secondary battery upgraded to 130mm DP's

Czarny Lew Class, Polish Heavy Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
14,400 t light; 15,141 t standard; 16,437 t normal; 17,474 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
718.04 ft / 710.00 ft x 71.00 ft x 20.75 ft (normal load)
218.86 m / 216.41 m x 21.64 m x 6.32 m

Armament:
9 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (3x3 guns), 451.95lbs / 205.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (1x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (4x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side ends, evenly spread
24 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (6x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
24 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 6 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,781 lbs / 2,169 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.00" / 152 mm 420.00 ft / 128.02 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 8.00" / 203 mm 3.25" / 83 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm 0.50" / 13 mm -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 9.00" / 229 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 91,119 shp / 67,975 Kw = 31.50 kts
Range 8,053nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,333 tons

Complement:
725 - 943

Cost:
£7.260 million / $29.041 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 564 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 3,929 tons, 23.9 %
- Belts: 1,066 tons, 6.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 704 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,033 tons, 12.4 %
- Conning Tower: 125 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,525 tons, 15.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,332 tons, 44.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,037 tons, 12.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
27,106 lbs / 12,295 Kg = 64.3 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 2.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.89
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.24 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 30.00 ft / 9.14 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m aft of break)
- Mid (55 %): 23.00 ft / 7.01 m
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m (23.00 ft / 7.01 m before break)
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 22.68 ft / 6.91 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 197.1 %
Waterplane Area: 36,626 Square feet or 3,403 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 659 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.24
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
I was trying to follow the historical Polish plan for their fleet but is impossible with the resources available in WW. By the middle of 1937 the Polish leaders will recognize constructing three battlecruisers will be a strain to their resources. They will cancel their third planned battlecruiser and I'm just looking for replacements for that allocated tonnage. This cruiser was an enlarged Zialy Lew type cruiser but I agree is too slow to be cruisers and too weakly armed also.

There were no battlecruisers in Polish historical plans.
Polish historical needs and plan:
Type................War against Russia.....War against Germany.....Base protection.....Total.....Reduction.....1936-42 programme
battleship.................1.................................----............................----.....................1..............1...............--------.........
cruisers...................----................................1..............................----.....................1..............1...............---------........
destroyers................8...................................6..............................----.....................8..............2..................6..........
submarines..............12.................................12............................----.....................12...........-----............12...........
minelayers................1...................................1.............................----......................1............----...........1..............
escort......................6....................................6.............................----......................6.............6..............---------.........
MTBs...............------....................................22.............................12......................22..............10................12.......
minesweepers.........----..............................----..........................14......................14.............2....................12........

I would think that any new cruisers for the Polish navy would be designed to keep up with the BCs. If asked, the KM would suggest that Poland's fleet would probably be better served with some larger light cruisers than with additional heavy cruisers, something along the lines of the 12-15 gun 6" cruisers being built in various countries at the moment.

What is the obession with heavy cruiser killers? I must admit I have the same disease and I design a few then sit back and feel they are a waste of resources and I go off and build something else altogether.

Earl's final variant looks about the best being more of a Super CA. Soemthing would like this might fit Argentina's battleline nicely one day as a heavy cruiser.

Here's a Large light Cruiser design, similar to Belgrano, but slightly faster, and with another turret superfiring.

Czarny Lew Class, Poland Large Light Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
10,529 t light; 11,063 t standard; 12,162 t normal; 13,042 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
638.57 ft / 630.00 ft x 63.00 ft x 19.50 ft (normal load)
194.64 m / 192.02 m x 19.20 m x 5.94 m

Armament:
15 - 5.90" / 150 mm guns (5x3 guns), 102.69lbs / 46.58kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (1x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in a deck mount with hoist
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
8 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (4x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1,975 lbs / 896 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 450.00 ft / 137.16 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 6.50" / 165 mm 2.50" / 64 mm 3.75" / 95 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 1.00" / 25 mm
3rd: 2.00" / 51 mm 0.50" / 13 mm 1.00" / 25 mm

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 94,046 shp / 70,158 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,345nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,979 tons

Complement:
578 - 752

Cost:
£5.132 million / $20.527 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 247 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 2,861 tons, 23.5 %
- Belts: 925 tons, 7.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 511 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,334 tons, 11.0 %
- Conning Tower: 91 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 2,607 tons, 21.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,765 tons, 39.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,633 tons, 13.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,186 lbs / 7,342 Kg = 157.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forecastle (40 %): 25.75 ft / 7.85 m
- Mid (55 %): 25.75 ft / 7.85 m (15.75 ft / 4.80 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (10 %): 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Stern: 15.75 ft / 4.80 m
- Average freeboard: 22.25 ft / 6.78 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.1 %
Waterplane Area: 28,837 Square feet or 2,679 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 105 lbs/sq ft or 515 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.36
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

That's the sort of thing I can see being useful for the Polish Navy: they would work for any sort of detached cruiser missions, they would be excellent escorts for the new BCs, and they would be cheaper than more heavy cruisers. Not to mention better at keeping torpedo-armed ships away from the BCs than heavy cruisers would be.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
What is the obession with heavy cruiser killers? I must admit I have the same disease and I design a few then sit back and feel they are a waste of resources and I go off and build something else altogether.

Germany doesn't look at them as "heavy cruiser killers", Germany looks at them as post Treaty heavy cruisers. Without the Treaty to constrain the size of ships, the 16-20,000 ton bracket seems (to Germany) where the heavy cruisers ought to be.