Romanian concepts.

Master

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 3:09am

Reading through Conway's this afternoon, trying to find Battleships that would fit in a 577 ft dock, I came up with this. It's based off of the Austrian Improved Tegetthoff design (wish I could have gotten the original Tegetthoff's before they were given to the whoever at the end of WWI oh well).

Constanta, Romania Battleship laid down 1939

Displacement:
24,203 t light; 26,260 t standard; 27,006 t normal; 27,602 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
564.30 ft / 564.30 ft x 93.50 ft x 27.56 ft (normal load)
172.00 m / 172.00 m x 28.50 m x 8.40 m

Armament:
12 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x3 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,791 lbs / 8,070 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.2" / 310 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 11.60 ft / 3.54 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.35" / 85 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 25.81 ft / 7.87 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 13.4" / 340 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm -
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -

- Armour deck: 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 33,990 shp / 25,357 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,342 tons

Complement:
1,053 - 1,369

Cost:
£16.546 million / $66.186 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,224 tons, 8.2 %
Armour: 10,005 tons, 37.0 %
- Belts: 2,296 tons, 8.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,172 tons, 4.3 %
- Armament: 2,900 tons, 10.7 %
- Armour Deck: 3,365 tons, 12.5 %
- Conning Tower: 271 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 920 tons, 3.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,905 tons, 40.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,802 tons, 10.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
30,844 lbs / 13,991 Kg = 23.6 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.92
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.650
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.12 ft / 7.96 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Stern: 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Average freeboard: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.6 %
Waterplane Area: 40,421 Square feet or 3,755 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 202 lbs/sq ft or 987 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.48
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Thoughts? It's slow, but I want it to be able to operate with the Regeles.

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

2

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 3:37am

Alternatively there is this one with the 9 15in guns.

Constanta, Romania Battleship laid down 1939

Displacement:
25,449 t light; 27,277 t standard; 28,044 t normal; 28,658 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
564.30 ft / 564.30 ft x 93.50 ft x 27.56 ft (normal load)
172.00 m / 172.00 m x 28.50 m x 8.40 m

Armament:
9 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns (8x2 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,751 lbs / 8,505 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 11.60 ft / 3.54 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.35" / 85 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 25.81 ft / 7.87 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm -
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,437 shp / 28,674 Kw = 21.50 kts
Range 5,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,381 tons

Complement:
1,083 - 1,408

Cost:
£16.007 million / $64.027 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,041 tons, 7.3 %
Armour: 11,038 tons, 39.4 %
- Belts: 2,522 tons, 9.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,172 tons, 4.2 %
- Armament: 2,528 tons, 9.0 %
- Armour Deck: 4,518 tons, 16.1 %
- Conning Tower: 298 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,040 tons, 3.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,179 tons, 39.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,595 tons, 9.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
35,797 lbs / 16,237 Kg = 21.4 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.88
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.04 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.12 ft / 7.96 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Stern: 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Average freeboard: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 121.0 %
Waterplane Area: 41,352 Square feet or 3,842 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 204 lbs/sq ft or 994 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

3

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 3:49am

Edit, apparently I posted between the 12x350mm and the 9x380mm. Many of the comments would apply to both, overall I prefer the 9x380mm. Though I still wonder about the quad 350 version.
Back to the original scribbling :[

Edit #2 : Triple 381mm on a 93 beam seems unlikely, though I didn't go look at historical ships on that.
/i]

Well let's see :

Length... -2m = smaller slip/dock
Hmm using Bharat's guns I see <frantically tries to figure out what Bharat is up to>

For the secondary, you're looking at a high rotating weight with twin 150mm + 6" face armor, I'd suggest turrets

Main magazine - it's been noted that for battleships, 150 rounds is likely more than needed. You'll save 6+ tons per shell you remove...

My preference is for a 4m+, preferable 5-6m belt, allowing more protected floatation room inside, and better protection vs. diving shells. Ironically I tend to come short of 5m... argh.

Main turret : 80mm would be the sides/roof armor, which means a cruiser could put a shell through the side, or plunging shell /bomb the roof. Nice barbette armor.

Even in the Black Sea I might consider a larger fuel bunker- even the same range at 15kts would be good. You may want to run at 3/4 power for extended times, a larger bunker gives that option.

TDS is heavier than typically found, but not exceptionally so.

Deck is adequate, esp if conc. on citadel.

Stability, at 1.02, could use work.
Seaboat rating is good.
wet forward.

Thoughts : First, I think I should have looked at the Russo-Turk-Rumanian ships first. I have this impression that you're shaving all aspects - size, armor, weapons, etc. with a result of a decent ship with no great strong point.

What happens when you change too a 3x4 quad for the main guns? Bharat had quad 350mm on the Akbars, and Italy the ever-selling has ages of Quad experience.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Apr 6th 2008, 3:53am)

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

4

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 8:13am

When I went from the first to the second design, I didn't change the beam. Fixed that.

Actually, I didn't even know Bhrat made a 13.8in gun. I was going to go a little closer to home, the Skoda Works. Ever heard of them? They made a 13.8in gun for the AH Improved Tegetthoff's. Thought I'd see if I could use those. Also, curiously enough, The improved Tegetthoff's never got built, even though WWI started (to my knowledge anyhow in 1916). Wonder where they went too? Must be in limbo somewhere. And I was intending triples for the 12 350mm.

The ship tends to be wet forward isn't too big of an issue, I think. Its meant to run around the Black and maybe Med Sea.

Here's the revised 9 380mm

Constanta, Romania Battleship laid down 1939

Displacement:
28,281 t light; 30,177 t standard; 31,492 t normal; 32,544 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
564.30 ft / 564.30 ft x 105.00 ft x 27.56 ft (normal load)
172.00 m / 172.00 m x 32.00 m x 8.40 m

Armament:
9 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,951.09lbs / 885.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns (8x2 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 5 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 18,751 lbs / 8,505 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.35" / 85 mm 366.80 ft / 111.80 m 25.81 ft / 7.87 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 42,121 shp / 31,422 Kw = 21.50 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,367 tons

Complement:
1,181 - 1,536

Cost:
£16.665 million / $66.658 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,041 tons, 6.5 %
Armour: 12,772 tons, 40.6 %
- Belts: 3,257 tons, 10.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,172 tons, 3.7 %
- Armament: 2,948 tons, 9.4 %
- Armour Deck: 5,073 tons, 16.1 %
- Conning Tower: 321 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,140 tons, 3.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,178 tons, 38.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,212 tons, 10.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
45,687 lbs / 20,723 Kg = 27.3 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 9.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.37 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.12 ft / 7.96 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Stern: 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Average freeboard: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 124.6 %
Waterplane Area: 46,436 Square feet or 4,314 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 206 lbs/sq ft or 1,005 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.61
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

5

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 8:46am

Glad I'm getting German 600mm torpedoes into my destroyer force in 1938...

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

6

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 8:54am

Hmm, guess I shall have to counter that with LOTS of torpedos instead of bigger ones (quantity over quality).

Anyhow, in the event of Bulgaria breaking the Treaty of Dobrich, then do you really think I'm going to send this ship out without at least 10 Destoyer's?

This ship is designed to counter the Russian and Turkish Battleships, not anything in the Bulgarian Fleet. I had to sacrifice speed, although that way it can work with the Regeles.

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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

Posts: 3,605

7

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 10:23am

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
Actually, I didn't even know Bhrat made a 13.8in gun. I was going to go a little closer to home, the Skoda Works. Ever heard of them? They made a 13.8in gun for the AH Improved Tegetthoff's. Thought I'd see if I could use those. Also, curiously enough, The improved Tegetthoff's never got built, even though WWI started (to my knowledge anyhow in 1916).

Both your gun and the Indian weapon use the default shell weight, so it certainly *looked* like their gun.
Skoda...nope never heard of them... unless you mean that Czech company who's name appears on a large part of my gear

The Ersatz Monarch class was never laid down, this book says "All provided for under the 1914 Programme, but not laid down. Only one builder was announced, and they would probably not have been laid down until 1916 if the war had not broken out in 1914."

The book also shows the guns as 14.8" which is wrong. Wiki states that Skoda received the contract for the first batch of ten 350mm guns, but not what happened after that.
....aha!
The link at the bottom of the wiki page led to a site, which ends
"The 350-mm (13.8-in) L/45 was designed by Skoda, and had a muzzle velocity of 820 m/sec (2690 ft/sec). It weighed 74 tonnes and fired a 635-kg (1400 lb) shell about 31 500 m (34 450 yards). The guns for Schiff VIII had been ordered from Skoda's factory at Polsen before the outbreak of the war, but no further orders were placed. Four guns were delivered to the army in 1916-18 for use on the Italian front and the remainder were seized by the French as war loot. By the end of 1917 all four vessels had been cancelled."

Not a bad gun- decent shell weight and velocity.

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AdmKuznetsov

Sage

Posts: 2,918

8

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 11:50am

The 80mm turret roof is inadequate

make it at least equal to the deck, or it will be vulnerable to 381mm/45 fire outside of 16,300 meters. A gunhouse of 120mm will push that out to 23,400 meters which is still not much, but it will suffice at most battle ranges. I'd prefer 200mm though.

As she stands, she's a turret explosion waiting to happen.

Otherwise, a good ship for the tonnage. Great firepower and survivability, adequate belt, deck, turret face, and barbette, and speed conforms to the rest of the Romanian battle line.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "AdmKuznetsov" (Apr 6th 2008, 11:53am)

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Sachmle

Professional

Posts: 816

9

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 1:32pm

As you're basing her off the Erstatz Monarch class I wonder have you visited the site http://www.viribusunitis.ca/ersatzm.htm ? Not only does it have info on the Viribus Unitis (Tegetthoff) class BBs it has some nice info on the Erstatz Monarch as well as a line drawing based off the final plans.

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Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

10

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 1:58pm

Another possible source for 35 cm guns is Germany, the German Heer has been buying a series of 35cm railway guns, and the guns are based on a design intended for naval service (in the end, the KM decided to go with a 38cm weapon, but it's original intent was to use 35cm guns). While Skoda could certainly do the work, they would need to design the weapon and fabricate the machinery needed to produce it, at the moment the German 35cm design is in production.

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Sachmle

Professional

Posts: 816

11

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 6:12pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Sachmle
And here's my half ass attempt to sim Ersatz Monarch in SS3.

Ersatz Monarch, Austro-Hungarian Battleship laid down 1914

Displacement:
22,387 t light; 23,793 t standard; 24,618 t normal; 25,278 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(581.14 ft / 574.15 ft) x 83.66 ft x (27.43 / 28.05 ft)
(177.13 m / 175.00 m) x 25.50 m x (8.36 / 8.55 m)

Armament:
10 - 13.78" / 350 mm 45.0 cal guns - 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 90 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1914 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts
14 - 5.91" / 150 mm 50.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1914 Model
14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
8 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.00lbs / 9.98kg shells, 200 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
4 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 raised mounts - superfiring
4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck forward
4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
12 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 22.00lbs / 9.98kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 44.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 250 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1914 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 15,846 lbs / 7,188 kg
16 - 20.9" / 530 mm, 32.61 ft / 9.94 m torpedoes - 2.000 t each, 32.000 t total
In 4 sets of submerged side tubes
4 - 20.9" / 530 mm, 32.61 ft / 9.94 m torpedoes - 2.000 t each, 8.000 t total
In 2 sets of submerged bow & stern tubes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.2" / 310 mm 342.03 ft / 104.25 m 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
Ends: 7.87" / 200 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 14.11 ft / 4.30 m
35.27 ft / 10.75 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.72" / 95 mm 328.08 ft / 100.00 m 28.67 ft / 8.74 m

- Hull Bulges:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 12.2" / 310 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 12.2" / 310 mm
2nd: 4.72" / 120 mm 2.99" / 76 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.83" / 72 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 2.83" / 72 mm Quarter deck: 2.83" / 72 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 12.60" / 320 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 31,458 shp / 23,468 Kw = 21.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,485 tons (58% coal)

Complement:
982 - 1,277

Cost:
£2.922 million / $11.687 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,630 tons, 10.7 %
- Guns: 2,590 tons, 10.5 %
- Torpedoes: 40 tons, 0.2 %
Armour: 9,439 tons, 38.3 %
- Belts: 3,420 tons, 13.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,296 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 2,540 tons, 10.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,952 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 230 tons, 0.9 %
Machinery: 1,279 tons, 5.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,574 tons, 34.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,231 tons, 9.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 465 tons, 1.9 %
- Hull below water: 40 tons
- Hull void weights: 150 tons
- Hull above water: 25 tons
- Above deck: 250 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
31,465 lbs / 14,272 Kg = 24.1 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 5.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 16.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.94
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle,
a ram bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.654 / 0.657
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.96 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.71 ft / -1.13 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 23.43 ft / 7.14 m, 23.43 ft / 7.14 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m, 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 17.49 ft / 5.33 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.7 %
Waterplane Area: 36,932 Square feet or 3,431 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 186 lbs/sq ft or 909 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.96
- Longitudinal: 1.37
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Now that it's in the right thread....

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

12

Sunday, April 6th 2008, 11:51pm

Ok, how about this?

Constanta, Romania Battleship laid down 1940

Displacement:
27,499 t light; 29,328 t standard; 30,604 t normal; 31,625 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
585.00 ft / 564.50 ft x 102.00 ft x 27.56 ft (normal load)
178.31 m / 172.06 m x 31.09 m x 8.40 m

Armament:
12 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,400.00lbs / 635.03kg shells, 1940 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 5.31" / 135 mm guns (8x2 guns), 70.55lbs / 32.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1940 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 17,991 lbs / 8,161 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13.4" / 340 mm 366.93 ft / 111.84 m 12.11 ft / 3.69 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.35" / 85 mm 366.93 ft / 111.84 m 26.64 ft / 8.12 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.0" / 380 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 15.0" / 380 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 5.71" / 145 mm, Conning tower: 14.96" / 380 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 41,163 shp / 30,708 Kw = 21.50 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,298 tons

Complement:
1,156 - 1,503

Cost:
£17.385 million / $69.542 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,120 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 12,011 tons, 39.2 %
- Belts: 2,662 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,210 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 3,058 tons, 10.0 %
- Armour Deck: 4,766 tons, 15.6 %
- Conning Tower: 315 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 1,101 tons, 3.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,117 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,105 tons, 10.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
41,825 lbs / 18,971 Kg = 32.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 6.3 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.675
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.53 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.76 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.50 ft / 4.11 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.13 ft / 7.96 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Stern: 16.63 ft / 5.07 m
- Average freeboard: 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.6 %
Waterplane Area: 45,125 Square feet or 4,192 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1,019 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

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Hrolf Hakonson

Scooby-Doo

Posts: 6,178

13

Monday, April 7th 2008, 12:02am

Myself, I'd probably trade off a bit of that massive torpedo bulkhead on some more belt armor. Also, is she supposed to be built in a Type 2 or a Type 3 slip?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hrolf Hakonson" (Apr 7th 2008, 11:58am)

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

14

Monday, April 7th 2008, 6:35am

The torpedo bulkhead is, according Conway's historic, believe it or not.

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

15

Thursday, July 3rd 2008, 10:10pm

An AA cruiser to be laid down in Q3 to be built somewhere.

Cetetea Alba, Romania Light Cruiser laid down 1936

Displacement:
5,619 t light; 5,989 t standard; 6,529 t normal; 6,961 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
513.67 ft / 498.69 ft x 54.13 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
156.57 m / 152.00 m x 16.50 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
16 - 4.33" / 110 mm guns (8x2 guns), 40.61lbs / 18.42kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 691 lbs / 313 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 600

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 301.84 ft / 92.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 0.98" / 25 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 1.18" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 54,382 shp / 40,569 Kw = 31.50 kts
Range 6,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 971 tons

Complement:
363 - 472

Cost:
£2.546 million / $10.183 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 86 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 1,454 tons, 22.3 %
- Belts: 824 tons, 12.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 108 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 513 tons, 7.9 %
- Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 1,526 tons, 23.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,404 tons, 36.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 910 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
9,007 lbs / 4,085 Kg = 221.8 x 4.3 " / 110 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.23
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.430
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.21 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.91 ft / 1.80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.00 ft / 6.40 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.38 ft / 5.30 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 154.8 %
Waterplane Area: 17,602 Square feet or 1,635 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 85 lbs/sq ft or 416 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.62
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

16

Thursday, July 3rd 2008, 11:53pm

this is going to sound whiny but why would Romania want or need an AA Cruiser? I would invest the money and resources in another CL and more fighters

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

17

Friday, July 4th 2008, 12:57am

The reason for it is that the Dacia's have very little AA armament, and these two ships are to operate with them.

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Brockpaine

The Shadow

Posts: 15,109

18

Friday, July 4th 2008, 1:38am

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
The reason for it is that the Dacia's have very little AA armament, and these two ships are to operate with them.

Would it be easier to refit the Dacias for more AA? Surely that would be cheaper yet.

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Vukovlad

Me too !!!

Posts: 4,137

19

Friday, July 4th 2008, 1:53am

Quoted

Originally posted by TheCanadian
The reason for it is that the Dacia's have very little AA armament, and these two ships are to operate with them.

I dont quite understand, the Dacia´s carry the same amount of 110mm DP guns as this design

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TheCanadian

Master

Posts: 2,242

20

Friday, July 4th 2008, 2:15am

Yes, but the Dacia's have no AA smaller than 75mm.

That is an option I suppose, to refit the Dacia's An alternate plan is to build two of the Polish Conrad Torpedo cruisers, with their 21 600mm torps.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "TheCanadian" (Jul 4th 2008, 2:15am)

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WesWorld