WesWorld

Peru will concentrate in building destroyers and subs for the next couple of years but this designs are something I have being toying with this for a while. The first one should be to replace the old light cruisers. At least two could be build IMO. Maybe will need to upgrade pier.

Callao, Peru Light Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
7,749 t light; 8,082 t standard; 9,004 t normal; 9,742 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
569.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 19.10 ft (normal load)
173.43 m / 167.64 m x 18.29 m x 5.82 m

Armament:
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
3 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (1x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,721 lbs / 780 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 72,662 shp / 54,206 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,660 tons

Complement:
461 - 600

Cost:
£3.772 million / $15.087 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 215 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 1,668 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 566 tons, 6.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 432 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 641 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,064 tons, 22.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,802 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,255 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,279 lbs / 5,116 Kg = 109.5 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.01
Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 19.48 ft / 5.94 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.0 %
Waterplane Area: 21,987 Square feet or 2,043 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 535 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.52
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

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The other is a coastal battleship to join the Lima with heavier guns.

Almirante Grau, Peru Coastal Battleship laid down 1936

Displacement:
13,786 t light; 14,679 t standard; 15,091 t normal; 15,421 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
502.00 ft / 502.00 ft x 89.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
153.01 m / 153.01 m x 27.13 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
5 - 14.00" / 356 mm guns (2 mounts), 1,372.00lbs / 622.33kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 7,036 lbs / 3,191 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
3.00" / 76 mm 280.00 ft / 85.34 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm - 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 28,525 shp / 21,280 Kw = 23.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 742 tons

Complement:
680 - 885

Cost:
£7.030 million / $28.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 879 tons, 5.8 %
Armour: 5,391 tons, 35.7 %
- Belts: 1,798 tons, 11.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 311 tons, 2.1 %
- Armament: 1,330 tons, 8.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,741 tons, 11.5 %
- Conning Tower: 211 tons, 1.4 %
Machinery: 800 tons, 5.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,715 tons, 44.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,305 tons, 8.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
25,621 lbs / 11,622 Kg = 18.7 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 5.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 15.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.514
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.64 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 16.80 ft / 5.12 m (16.50 ft / 5.03 m aft of break)
- Mid (60 %): 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Quarterdeck (17 %): 16.50 ft / 5.03 m
- Stern: 17.45 ft / 5.32 m
- Average freeboard: 17.57 ft / 5.36 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.0 %
Waterplane Area: 31,366 Square feet or 2,914 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 164 lbs/sq ft or 802 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 2.00
- Overall: 1.02
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

On the light cruiser, stability is VERY low, at 1.01 you'll need to start counterflooding after only very little damage. She's perhaps a hair slow as well, but not bad. Other than those two issues, looks pretty good, with lots of firepower for her size.

The BB's secondary is VERY light, really suitable only for shooting at aircraft, which is risky. Belt armor is good, but deck is a bit light.

The cruisers must likely will be made, even with that flaw. They will be an advantage over the two old cruisers still around.

On the other hand the other ship is an attempt to put the heaviest possible gun allowed by the international community in the smallest hull possible but in reality is more feasible just to build a sister ship to the Lima.

You'd probably want to correct the flaw. I agree that the old light cruisers need to be replaced, but a ship that's that unstable..... {shudder}

Removing the amidships 15cm turret would certainly give you more stability, by removing topweight. You might also get some by shaving the deck armor a little. You might try adjusting the trim down a bit as well, that will certainly help.

If Peru is looking for Cruiser designs, I'd suggest starting with something like the 2 General Belgrano class Cruisers being built for Argentina by Germany at the moment

Trying to put as much firepower as possible. Played with some numbers and stability when up to 1.18 on this try.

Callao, Peru Light Cruiser laid down 1935

Displacement:
7,749 t light; 8,082 t standard; 9,004 t normal; 9,742 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
569.00 ft / 550.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 19.10 ft (normal load)
173.43 m / 167.64 m x 18.29 m x 5.82 m

Armament:
12 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
3 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (1x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline amidships
8 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1935 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,721 lbs / 780 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 72,662 shp / 54,206 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,660 tons

Complement:
461 - 600

Cost:
£3.772 million / $15.087 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 215 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 1,668 tons, 18.5 %
- Belts: 566 tons, 6.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 432 tons, 4.8 %
- Armour Deck: 641 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 29 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,064 tons, 22.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,802 tons, 42.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,255 tons, 13.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,149 lbs / 5,511 Kg = 118.0 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.17
Metacentric height 3.1 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 14.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.17 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.45 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (50 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m (19.00 ft / 5.79 m before break)
- Stern: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Average freeboard: 19.63 ft / 5.98 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 151.0 %
Waterplane Area: 21,987 Square feet or 2,043 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Quoted

Originally posted by Earl822
If Peru is looking for Cruiser designs, I'd suggest starting with something like the 2 General Belgrano class Cruisers being built for Argentina by Germany at the moment

Trying some local designs but will check that design. Thanks. This is something to start production by late 1934 at the earliest anyway.

Hmmm, Nordmark might cook up a design for you if you wish

1.17 is more than adequate, in general I'm happy if it's 1.10 or higher. General Belgrano is longer, Peru would need a longer slip and dock to build that design. You might want to consider adding a little more ammunition, also the new 150mm guns Peru is using from Germany fire 45.5kg shells vs the 46.71 kg shells SS gives you as standard.

Quoted

Originally posted by Earl822
Hmmm, Nordmark might cook up a design for you if you wish

But it need to fit our piers and dry docks and right now for example the Belgrano is too long for us. Also we want to put as much firepower as possible in less tonnage, remember we only have 4000 tons to play with per quarter and a large ship like the Belgrano will tie up our production for a long time.

In reality I'm happy with the overall light cruiser domestic design but I will be happy if you could design a 14 inch coastal for us that could fit our Type 2 piers and dry docks.

But be advised we would not start cruiser construction until late 1934 at the earliest, except for very special circumstances.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
1.17 is more than adequate, in general I'm happy if it's 1.10 or higher. General Belgrano is longer, Peru would need a longer slip and dock to build that design. You might want to consider adding a little more ammunition, also the new 150mm guns Peru is using from Germany fire 45.5kg shells vs the 46.71 kg shells SS gives you as standard.

Changed the shell size and increased to 220. It should make it a decent design IMO for the end of the decade to replace the old cruisers. Thanks for the input.

It's not so much your 4000 tons per quarter output that would be the problem, that's plenty to produce 2 Belgrano's concurrently, even if you had to contract someone to build them for you (3114t per quarter). And they don't take much longer to produce, only 1 more quarter. The extra length, though, that IS a problem. Another option that could work is the new German-built Turkish Ankara-class CL, which is a bit smaller than your design and carries fewer 15cm guns, but carries more torpedos.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
It's not so much your 4000 tons per quarter output that would be the problem, that's plenty to produce 2 Belgrano's concurrently, even if you had to contract someone to build them for you (3114t per quarter). And they don't take much longer to produce, only 1 more quarter. The extra length, though, that IS a problem. Another option that could work is the new German-built Turkish Ankara-class CL, which is a bit smaller than your design and carries fewer 15cm guns, but carries more torpedos.

The Ankara got me thinking that maybe build one of the Callao locally and order an Ankara and after they are completed repeat the process, making it possible to build four cruisers in three years. Two to show the world the "greatness" of Peruvian designs while at the same time Peru ensuring themselves they have realible cruisers in case their "great" ships turned out to be a floating bathtub.

Still you know destroyers and subs will be the priority during 1933, 1934 plus the Cuzco needs to be rebuild after Argentina delivers it.

Exactly. The thing to focus on in the near term is the destroyer and submarine fleet, cruisers can wait a bit.

Definite agreement with Hrolf here. In the whole period I've been playing (I think 2 game years now), I haven't laid down anything larger than a sub tender.

Maybe Italy could recommend an enlarged Veinticinco de Mayo with 8x190mm guns.



The turret arrangement of the BB doesn't make much sense. Best to go for commonality with a slightly modified sister.

Agree with the CDBB; a 2x2 arrangement would be better (and a Lima-clone would be better still, and appreciated by the Philippines to boot ^_^ ).

As for the cruiser - [HoomanModeON] I'd personally question Q turret. Is there enough room for the barbette what with the boilers and engine-rooms? And all that hot steam swiring around the magazine? [/HoomanModeOFF]

Quoted

Definite agreement with Hrolf here. In the whole period I've been playing (I think 2 game years now), I haven't laid down anything larger than a sub tender.

But at least next year you get to lay down a VERY BIG subtender... right?

For the CDBB I'd echo the suggestion of continuing to use Filipino designs, or consult with the Americans or Atlanteans on picking up used 14 inch guns from ships they "might" be scraping in the near future. You might want to get them to build it for you even (a smaller Chilean CDBB clone). Or mix and match. Use a Filipino hull and American/Atlantean weapons.

Peru definetly needs more Destroyers. For CBs I would go with another Lima giving you a battleline of 2 Limas and Huascar all with 12" guns. As for the Cruisers I would recomend a paitr of Ankaras and one of your design only a tad (1,000tons) bigger as a fleet flagship. Have you considered a Brooklyn or Mogami layout for her? Or maybe an Agami or Utah?

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
But at least next year you get to lay down a VERY BIG subtender... right?

Oh definitely.

*evil cackle*