WesWorld

29-Class (Refit 1942), Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1929 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
1,557 t light; 1,612 t standard; 1,820 t normal; 1,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
353.17 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
107.65 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 281 lbs / 127 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,934 shp / 32,029 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 5,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 374 tons

Complement:
139 - 181

Cost:
£0.833 million / $3.330 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 18 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 887 tons, 48.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 526 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 263 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
456 lbs / 207 Kg = 6.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 71
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 14.16 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
Waterplane Area: 7,826 Square feet or 727 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.62
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

3 tons search radar
3 tons elevation radar
3 tons main battery range radar
8 tons main battery fire control computer
4x 1 ton AA range radar
4x 1 ton AA range radar

18 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar
18 tons 60x depth charges and launching racks

20 tons unplanned kipple allowance

That's a lot of radar for a DD, methinks, especially on an old hull. Won't that add a lot of top weight and require additional power support? Eating up room, adding kilometers of wiring, adding additional crew (operation, maintenance)?

I guess your rebuld is pretty much along the lines of what others have presented already in the past, but still I think those points are worth thinking about.

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
That's a lot of radar for a DD, methinks, especially on an old hull. Won't that add a lot of top weight and require additional power support? Eating up room, adding kilometers of wiring, adding additional crew (operation, maintenance)?

I guess your rebuld is pretty much along the lines of what others have presented already in the past, but still I think those points are worth thinking about.

It's not necessarily true that the weight is off, but the quantity of radars is definitely excessive. On a destroyer refit of this size, I'd suggest:
~ 5t for a general search radar
~ 3t for a fire-control radar
~ 2t for a navigational radar
~ 5t for associated generators, gunnery computers, etc

...and probably not much more than that. That'd still probably put the rebuilt ship on rough parity with many new-built DDs in terms of radar suite.

Let's try this, then...



29-Class (Refit 1942), Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1929 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
1,555 t light; 1,612 t standard; 1,820 t normal; 1,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
353.17 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
107.65 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns in single mounts, 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 293 lbs / 133 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,934 shp / 32,029 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 5,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 374 tons

Complement:
139 - 181

Cost:
£0.836 million / $3.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 19 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 884 tons, 48.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 526 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 265 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
459 lbs / 208 Kg = 6.8 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.76

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 14.16 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
Waterplane Area: 7,826 Square feet or 727 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.62
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

5 tons general search radar
2 tons navigational radar
3 tons main battery fire control radar
3 tons AA battery fire control radar
3 tons fire control computers
4 tons electronic-suite generators

18 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar
18 tons 60x depth charges and launching racks

25 tons unplanned kipple allowance

29-Class (Refit 1942), Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1929 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
1,555 t light; 1,612 t standard; 1,820 t normal; 1,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
353.17 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
107.65 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 293 lbs / 133 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
6 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,934 shp / 32,029 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 5,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 374 tons

Complement:
139 - 181

Cost:
£0.836 million / $3.345 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 16 tons, 0.9 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 885 tons, 48.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 528 tons, 29.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 265 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
465 lbs / 211 Kg = 6.9 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.39
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.77

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 14.16 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.1 %
Waterplane Area: 7,826 Square feet or 727 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 178 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

5 tons general search radar
2 tons navigational radar
3 tons fire control radar
3 tons fire control computers
4 tons electronic-suite generators

18 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar
18 tons 60x depth charges and launching racks

28 tons unplanned kipple allowance

Thanks for the drawing. I like drawings. :)

I am a bit surprised just how much room there is on her beam for those 37mm quads. Have you checked their scale? They seem relatively small. I imagine quite a crew to control and to feed those fast-firing guns. Pretty much like the historical 4cm quads so common on USN designs, except that you have an enclosed mount here which is probably more ciritical in handling the gun than it is to protect the crew.....?!

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Thanks for the drawing. I like drawings.

I am a bit surprised just how much room there is on her beam for those 37mm quads. Have you checked their scale? They seem relatively small. I imagine quite a crew to control and to feed those fast-firing guns. Pretty much like the historical 4cm quads so common on USN designs, except that you have an enclosed mount here which is probably more ciritical in handling the gun than it is to protect the crew.....?!

Well, the idea of enclosing the mounts is...

*pauses, squinting at sim*

...mrrrgh.

29-Class (Refit 1942), Nordmark Destroyer laid down 1929 (Engine 1942)

Displacement:
1,555 t light; 1,612 t standard; 1,820 t normal; 1,986 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
353.17 ft / 350.00 ft x 35.00 ft x 13.00 ft (normal load)
107.65 m / 106.68 m x 10.67 m x 3.96 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1929 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
16 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 293 lbs / 133 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
5 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.98" / 25 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 42,934 shp / 32,029 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 5,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 374 tons

Complement:
139 - 181

Cost:
£0.836 million / $3.344 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 37 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 18 tons, 1.0 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 18 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 885 tons, 48.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 526 tons, 28.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 265 tons, 14.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 90 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
467 lbs / 212 Kg = 7.0 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.77

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 13.00 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 14.16 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 177.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.6 %
Waterplane Area: 7,826 Square feet or 727 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 69 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 36 lbs/sq ft or 177 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

5 tons general search radar
2 tons navigational radar
3 tons fire control radar
3 tons fire control computers
4 tons electronic-suite generators

18 tons torpedoes and support equipment

9 tons sonar
18 tons 60x depth charges and launching racks

28 tons unplanned kipple allowance


...ahem. The idea of enclosing the mounts is to provide full weather shielding for their crews. I may well have drawn them too small to provide the needed working space, but fortunately, their installation points have enough spare space that I don't think it's too concerning. Worst case I have to raise the midships mounts to clear their fields of fire.