WesWorld

Looooong post for a change.

July 1st

The Turkish Minister of the Army, Ismail Enver Pasha anounced today that plans were being made by the army to increase the army's strength by roughly 60,000 troops. Three additional infantry divisions, one Calvary division and several tank battalions have been requested. Its hoped that all of these divisions will be highly mechanized and the Turkish government plans to send army representatives to the Tabriz exibition in October in an effort to aquire the weapons nessassary to equipe the new units to the desired level.

July 15th

The navy announced that the elderly battleship Fatih Sultan Mehmed will replace the Turgut Reis as a training ship in the black sea training fleet. The Yavuz on the otherhand will be retained for a few more years while the navy examines either a possible replacement or rebuild. In addition several other older training vessels are expected to retire from service earlier than expected due to a short term manpower shortage that is expected due to the military's expansion plans.

July 18th

Turkish Foreign Minister Oghuz Osman Suleiman has added several visits to his planned regional visit, after a breif break following the trip to Athens in his western visit he will visit Yerevan-Armenia, Tehran, Bahgdad, Sanaa-Yemen, Riyadh-Saudi Arabia, Jiddah-Kingdom of Hedjaz, and finnaly Damascus it is hoped that relations with the former Ottoman colony's will be improved

August 4th

Turkish Foreign Minister Oghuz Osman Suleiman departs on his state visit in the region, his first visit will be to the republic of Byzantium.

August 5th

The Foreign Minister arrives in Constantinople and after a lengthy discussion. Present are several lower ranking Atlantean diplomats who took part in a frank discussion about security and trade issues between the three country's.

August 7th

The Foreign Minister arrives in Odesa and is greated by several Russian diplomats. In the meeting they discuss various trade and economic issues before Suleiman departs for Bucharest.

August 9th

Bucharest,
Oghuz Osman Suleiman and his Romanian had a breif meeting behind closed doors. It is rumored that the two were discussing the recent tentions in Lithuania. After the meeting Suleiman departed for Hungary.

August 10th

Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in Budapest. After a pleasant meeting the foreign minister departs for Belgrade.

August 11th
Belgrade,
In a visit similar to the one made in Bucharest Oghuz Osman Suleiman takes part in a breif meeting with his Yugoslavian counterpart before departing for Bulgaria.

August 14th

Sofia,
Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in the nation once allied to the Ottoman empire durring the war. Suleiman after a lengthy meeting with the Bulgarian foreign minister departs for Athens. Another meeting is planned for the spring of next year.

August 15th

Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in Athens and is greeted politely by several Greek diplomats. A meeting takes place quitely behind close doors. The visit is largely uneventfull excpet for the odd protest by angry Greek citizens who still harbour no love for their former rulers. The foriegn minister seems uneffected, fully expecting a less than warm welcome. Despite his expectations the visit is surprisingly cordial. at the end of the day Suleiman departsv for home, his first leg of his state visit completed.

August 16th
The Foreign Minister returns to the homeland having accomplished many of his goals. "The most difficult leg of the visit was in Athens. We still have much to discuss with out Greek neighbours but the most fruitfull discussion revolved around finalising a naval limitations agreement between out two country's. We feel this agreement will go a long way towards easing the long standing tentions between our two proud nations."

August 20th

The Foreign Minister once again departs to complete the second leg of his diplomatic trip in the region.

August 21th

Yerevan-Armenia,
The Foreign Minister departs Yerevan after lengthy discussions with his Armenian counterpart. It would appear that the meeting was not entirely successfull as a desheveled Suleiman departed for his next stop, Persia.

August 24th
Tehran,
Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrived in Persia today and was welcomed by Reza Pahlavi, the shaw of Persia. The two along with his Persian counterpart took part in a lengthy discussion aimed at clairifying a few issues that had sparked some controversy in the region.

August 26th
Bahgdad,
Suleiman arrives for a breif yet cordial visit with Iraqi and British diplomats. Following the meeting he departs for Yemen.

August 29th
Sanaa-Yemen,
The Foreign Minister arrives in Yemen to discuss several issues, most notably the conditions in the country following the war with India. Along with his counterpart Suleiman discusses the posibility of improved trade with Yemen. "The war and its consiquences are in the past, now Yemen must look towards the future. It is our hope that we can once again stand alongside our Yemeni brothers and help them achive the prosperity they deserve." After the meeting Suleiman departs for Riyadh.

Sept 1st
Riyadh-Saudi Arabia,
Turkish Foreign Minister Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in Riyadh to meet with Prince Yusuf ibn Ali and his diplomatic counterpart. Durring the meeting they discuss a wide array of issues and decide that another separate meeting is in order. After the meeting the foriegn minister departs for Jiddah.

Sept 8th
Turkish Foreign Minister Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in Jiddah and is graciously greeted by Prince Hussein ibn Ali. The two discuss various economic issues before Suleiman departs for the most anticipated part of the visit to Mecca and then Medina.

Sept 12th
Oghuz Osman Suleiman arrives in Medina. He then departs for his final visit to damascus after making a breif statement. "Following the disasterous war involving India, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and the Asiri mandate, Arabia has been devided, its people are disheartened and its economy faltering. We urge the Kingdoms of Saud and Hidjaz to come together and reconsile their differences. We also urge India to assist these nations, most notably the kingdom of Saudi Arabia whom they have negelected post war, in their efforts to rebuild and improve their faltering standard of living so that their people may prosper".

Sept 14th
Damascus,
The Turkish Foreign Minister arrived today in damascus and was greated by Syrian and French diplomats after pleasant talks the undoubtedly weary Suleiman departed for home having completed his state visit.

Sept 26th
Several Turkish military advisors arrive in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia with the goal of transforming the Saudi military into a truely professional force. Plans are also discussed involving the purchase of surplus Turkish warships.

It is nice to see that the Turkish Government has at least visited Persia, we hope that we will receive a lengthier visit.

The Persian Government must protest the plans to arm the rouge Saudi state

Turkey notes the Persian protests and we must clairify that, for the moment, plans call for training only, to improve the level of professionalism in the saudi military.

Future events may determine if there are either future visits to Tehran or weapons sales to the Saudi's.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Looooong post for a change.

And an interesting one

I'm sure the Netherlands likes a few points raised in some of the visits, particularily the ones India might not like, for obvious reasons.

Sept. 28th

The Turkish army has placed an order for 70 T-30 and 30 T-35 tanks from Russia. In addition 100 SdKfz 222 4 wheeled scout cars have also been ordered from germany with the possibility of an additional 40 being added to the order later. The Turkish army is still looking for a heavy armoured car to replace the BA-3's and BA-6's currently in service.

The goal is to create two recon battalions and an additional tank battalion. The army is also currently looking for updated small arms for its infantry divisions.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
The army is also currently looking for updated small arms for its infantry divisions.

Bulgaria asks: What kind?

You name it we want it. Rifles, SMG's, MG's, mortars and the like. I have little information as to what equipment the Turks had in 1935ish.

WTS Airplanes ^.^

Shameless Plug =P

I've just recently purchased several designs from Germany so in reguards to aircraft Turkeys well off.....for now that is.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
You name it we want it. Rifles, SMG's, MG's, mortars and the like. I have little information as to what equipment the Turks had in 1935ish.

I believe the Turks used the K98 Mauser rifle from the 1910s onward - I had a friend who owned one of them. 8x57mm of course.

Turkey also purchased the ZB-26 LMG, which is a predecessor to the Bren gun. (It appears my Bulgarian army troops have the same thing.)

I could not find any clues as to any historical Turkish submachine guns of the era, but your best bet would be an Erma/Bergmann knockoff like the Steyr-Solothurn Mp.34. That'd be German or Swiss.

With K98 Mausers and ZB-26 LMGs both in 8mm Mauser, that reduces supply demands. I don't know what the standard Turkish sidearm is but it would be best to have your SMG chambered for the same round. The Erma/Bergmann type SMGs came in pretty much every pistol caliber you could name. I'd suggest 7.63x25 Mauser would be a safe bet, as it lets you use those dashing Mauser Broomhandle pistols (C96 Pistol). Alternately, you could buy the German Lugers (9x19 Parabellum) and then order your Ermas for that caliber.

If you're looking for self-loading rifles, there's not a goodly number of them out there - most of them are full of fail, and the few good designs just aren't being adopted because supply officers claim soldiers with semiautos will fire all their ammo wildly and make supply problems more difficult... This will be your biggest problem justifying a semiauto battle rifle in this era. AFAIK, the French during WWI tried to field large numbers of semiauto rifles, but then they went back to the bolt-actions because of reliability issues. The US and USSR eventually pursued the idea in the 1930s, but WWII was not very kind to Russian production. Still, they had the SKS by 1945, and the AK47 by, well, 1947. Of course by that time you have the war experience to show your supply officers...

...I'm rather a small-arms geek, particularly with military surplus rifles.

I note in their quarterly report that the Persians are acquiring 50,000 ZH-29 semiauto rifles and asking to purchase the license for it. Since that is one of our anhistoric changes, Turkey might be justified in developing or purchasing a self-loading rifle of its own. If you want to go the semiauto route - and hindsight shows you'll want to do so - then I have a few suggestions:

First, the American Pedersen rifle, which was chambered for .276 Pedersen, was developed in the 20s and considered for US Army adoption in the early thirties. For some reason the design stalled out and eventually the M1 Garand was selected instead.

Second, as Red Admiral recently pointed out to me, the Italians have the semiauto Breda Mod.31, which honestly I have not heard much about. You'd want it in a different caliber than the 6.5x52 Carcano... that's not a widely-lauded round.

Third, the Russians worked a great deal on semiauto rifles in the 20s and 30s, and they deployed what is arguably one of the first "assault rifles", the Federov.

Fourth, the Mexican and Swiss Mondragon rifle, which was used historically by the Germans (in limited numbers) in WWI. The Mondragon is a bit finicky regarding dirt and grime, and so didn't make much of a name for itself.

Then there's always the possibility of developing your own ahistoric self-loading rifle. All the technical know-how is there, it's just that nobody bothered putting the pieces together. If you'd like I can draw up a decent mid-30s early 40s technology SLR and give you some possibilities...

Germany has been working on semi-auto rifles, and in 1935 currently has 4 in limited troop trials (the Pedersen, the Garand, the Walther (the Gewehr-41(W), basically), and an a-historical Solothurn that's a mishmash of a few others). All of them are, however, chambered in an intermediate round (the 7 x 40mm) rather than the 7.92 x 57mm, Germany having decided to issue riflemen an intermediate round in 1931.

Just a few comments to Brockpaine.

The Turks in OTL used very few K98, the most common rifles were the Turkish Mauser M1903 and Gew 88 (various marks), so many Gew 88 were delivered during WW1 that the Turks started to rebuild a large number of them to Gew 88/30. (the M1903 also being rebuilt as M1903/30)

The ZH29 is a historical design its main user was the Ethiopian Imperial guard (!)

The Gew.88 is not technically a Mauser. The Turkish K98s are what I am familiar with, because they were by and large sold off to the American civilian market.

However, here's a page on all the different models and updates of Turkish Mausers.

...So Germany's issuing intermediate rifle rounds already? THAT'S quite a jump forward. AFAIK the Germans in OTL didn't touch semiautos until the 40s, instead trusting on their MG34s... iiiinteresting change. With an intermediate round like 7x40, you're starting to dip into the assault rifle territory. May I ask how widespread the German semiautos are becoming? Say, two or three per squad, or are you re-equipping the entire squad?

The Bulgarian Army asks if the German Heer would permit several Bulgarian officers the chance to look over the various German small arms in training exercises.

I didn´t say Mausers i said rifles but said 1930 instead of 38.

The 7,92x40 is indeed a great leap (perhaps to big which is why I went for the ZH29)

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
The 7,92x40 is indeed a great leap (perhaps to big which is why I went for the ZH29)

7x40 would certainly be an intriguing development. I'm thinking of having Bulgaria get a semiauto battle rifle similar to the SAFN-49 or the AG42b, chambered either for 7mm Mauser or 6.5x55 Swede. If Germany's invested that heavily in intermediate semiautos, then those two designs might have been advanced as well.

I'd be interested to see what the US Army could do in place of the M1 carbine. Say, rather than use the .30 Carbine round, use something more along the lines of the German intermediate round... Hm. Shorten a .30/06 cartridge down to 40mm and you'd get... essentially the AK round. Kalashnikov would be sixteen at this time in the game... a little too early for him to be inspired by the mess in Lithuania

Right now, the 7 x 40mm is being issued in bolt-action form (the Mauser Karabiner 31), as a replacement for the 7.92 x 57mm Karabiner Kar. 98a (the Kar 98k hasn't been invented). The first rifles were issued to artillery and other support troops, followed by mountain troops, but by 1935 the line troops are converting to them.

The semi-auto rifles under test are just that, under test. Germany ordered 3,000 of each type for testing purposes so they could be issued to an infantry regiment to see how they did in (peacetime) service. The Garand and Pedersen rifles were issued in 1934, the Walther and Solothurn rifles (needing more development) were issued in 1935. Germany will be evaluating the results in late 1935-early 1936 to decide on whether or not to bother with semi-autos and, if so, which one.

There's LOTS more stuff on the German development of the 7 x 40mm and the rifle competitions in the German entries here from 1931 & 1932. A good chunk of it came, in one form or another, from here: http://gunsworld.com/reload/792kurz.html


As far as the US goes, depends a lot, I suspect, on whether they go with the historical .30-06 at the last minute for the Garand (requiring years more development on it) or stay with the .276 Pedersen cartridge that it was designed for.

Aug. 4th

Special Report Edykes Discovery, forwarded to the LON.

To: General Kazim Orbay, CO - LoN Task Force "Wilno"
From: RCMP Major Robert Mackenzie

Subject: Edykes Mass Grave

Decided to investigate matter personally when notified of the discovery of a mass grave, by personel of the German 39th Infantry Regiment. The CO of the 39th had the presence of mind to seal the area off to locals. Allowing myself and my investigators complete and undisturbed access to the site.

Leutnant Karl Freiherr von Kalben, 39th Infantry Regiment, had begun a partial excavation of the grave to establish it's rough dimensions and it's contents before I and my team arrived. He made a rough estimate, which he subsequently reported to his immediate superiors and myself that the mass grave was two dozen meters long, and about half that wide, containing an estimated two hundred human bodies. Judging by decomposition Leutnant von Kalben considered that the occupants had not been in the grave longer then a month. My team concurres, at an estimate of roughly two no more then three weeks.

The occupants of the grave, we have confirmed as amounting to two hundred and ten people, largely civilians (105), and a mixture of Lithuanian Security troops (42), National Police (40) and Lithuanian Army personel (23). This has been verified by an examination of articles and clothing found on the bodies. I am forwording military dogtags and civil papers to Field Headquarters, so that the Lithuanian authorities may be appraised of the fate of their personel and civilians.

Each of the occupants of the mass grave had been killed by a single shot delivered at close range with either a pistol or a rifle to the back of the head. This suggests that some sort of execution or reprisal was carried out here. Have not been able to get anything out of the local inhabitants of Edykes, they either claim to no nothing about the matter, or seem deeply afraid of admitting that they do know something. And it isn't us they are afraid of.

I am leaving one of my most experienced sargents in charge of things here, and will report to your headquarters as soon as possible, with a fuller account of the matter.

/s/ Robert Mackenzie, Major RCMP

Wait, how'd my mounties get dragged into this? o.o

Same way the Turks did unfortunately!