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1

Thursday, March 6th 2008, 8:44pm

Submarine SS-1

I've been tinkering around with coastal submarine designs and would like your opinion of these. SS-1 is based in great part off the Atlantean coastal SS boats, but I tweaked dimensions a bit

Quoted

SS-1, Bulgarian Coastal Submarine laid down 1937

Displacement:
454 t light; 463 t standard; 480 t normal; 493 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
135.00 ft / 135.00 ft x 15.00 ft x 12.00 ft (normal load)
41.15 m / 41.15 m x 4.57 m x 3.66 m

Armament:
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward
Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 20
3 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,234 shp / 921 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 6,000nm at 6.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons

Complement:
50 - 66

Cost:
£0.113 million / $0.452 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 34 tons, 7.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 300 tons, 62.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 26 tons, 5.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 25.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
74 lbs / 34 Kg = 305.0 x 0.8 " / 20 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.87
Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 13.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.691
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 11.62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 136.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0 %
Waterplane Area: 1,610 Square feet or 150 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 254 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 116 lbs/sq ft or 569 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 5.07
- Longitudinal: 4.19
- Overall: 4.40
Caution: Poor stability - excessive risk of capsizing
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

Operational diving depth 440 feet
Emergency diving depth 704 feet
Crush depth is 1100 feet


Secondly, a midget submarine based on the Royal Navy's X-class submarine. The armament is as historical: two side-mounted charges with 2,200-lbs detachable charges of Amatol, basically what the Brits used in the attack on Tirpitz.

Please note that according to the rules for submarines I get a sharply different answer for diving depth. I think the depth I listed for the X-class is a more realistic assessment of its capabilities...

Quoted

XS-1, Bulgarian Midget Submarine Raider laid down 1936

Displacement:
26 t light; 27 t standard; 27 t normal; 27 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
51.25 ft / 51.25 ft x 5.75 ft x 5.30 ft (normal load)
15.62 m / 15.62 m x 1.75 m x 1.62 m

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 1 shaft, 11 shp / 8 Kw = 6.50 kts
Range 500nm at 4.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 0 tons

Complement:
5 - 7

Cost:
£0.005 million / $0.020 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 0 tons, 1.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15 tons, 54.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 tons, 2.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 11 tons, 41.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
5 lbs / 2 Kg = 0.0 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 0.66
Metacentric height 0.0 ft / 0.0 m
Roll period: 16.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.605
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.91 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 7.16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 38 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0 %
Waterplane Area: 212 Square feet or 20 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 229 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 39 lbs/sq ft or 190 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 4.21
- Longitudinal: 4.98
- Overall: 4.28

Springsharp rules:
Operational diving depth 428 feet
Emergency diving depth 684.8 feet
Crush depth is 1070 feet

Based on historical RN X-craft with RL test depth of 300 feet.

Opinions?

2

Thursday, March 6th 2008, 10:22pm

Have you tried using the spreadsheet? As it is actually designed for submarines it gives reasonably accurate results.

3

Thursday, March 6th 2008, 10:26pm

...what spreadsheet?

4

Thursday, March 6th 2008, 10:42pm

http://www.geocities.com/greglocock/subsim.xls

Should be fairly self explanitary.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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5

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 8:44pm

I thought the last time we discussed that spreadsheet it was decided that, while flawed, we were sticking to SS for subs.

I've had success with some historic designs- well outside of diving depth allowed- that always seems high, err deep. One thing I have noted was that % hull was <100 prior to adding misc. weight.

6

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 10:19pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
I thought the last time we discussed that spreadsheet it was decided that, while flawed, we were sticking to SS for subs.


Yes, I beleive I've stated that a few times, I thought clearly enough for everyone to understand.

7

Sunday, March 9th 2008, 10:22pm

I use both. The spreadsheet to get a reasonably accurate idea of things and then a botched together SS file for the sim with characteristics as near as possible.

8

Monday, March 10th 2008, 1:13am

If using SpringStyle/Sharp...

Stability must be 1.0 or greater with trim set at 50.