WesWorld

I want to rebuild the predreadnought Manila into a Part 3, G, II icebreaker. Is this permissible under the CT rules or will she still be counted as a capital ship?

(Also, is a torpedo bulkhead/enhanced underwater protection de rigeur for IBs in which case I'd be better off building a new ship?...)

Proposed Manila rebuild:
PRS Manila, Filipino Polar Exploration Ship Conversion, laid down 1898 (Engine 192

Displacement:
9,063 t light; 9,342 t standard; 11,617 t normal; 13,438 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
401.10 ft / 394.00 ft x 73.00 ft x 21.10 ft (normal load)
122.26 m / 120.09 m x 22.25 m x 6.43 m

Armament:
4 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (1x4 guns), 120.00lbs / 54.43kg shells, 1928 Model
Quick firing guns in a turret (on a barbette)
on centreline forward
8 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft
6 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (2x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread

Weight of broadside 536 lbs / 243 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 228.00 ft / 69.49 m 10.25 ft / 3.12 m
Ends: 6.00" / 152 mm 166.00 ft / 50.60 m 10.25 ft / 3.12 m
Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 228.00 ft / 69.49 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 1.77" / 45 mm 20.0" / 508 mm
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 17,136 shp / 12,784 Kw = 19.40 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 4,095 tons)

Complement:
559 - 727

Cost:
£0.445 million / $1.781 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 63 tons, 0.5 %
Armour: 3,374 tons, 29.0 %
- Belts: 2,136 tons, 18.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 296 tons, 2.6 %
- Armour Deck: 830 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 111 tons, 1.0 %
Machinery: 534 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,942 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,555 tons, 22.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,150 tons, 9.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
39,999 lbs / 18,143 Kg = 352.0 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 6.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.50

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.670
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.40 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 19.85 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.50 ft / 8.08 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 18.70 ft / 5.70 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
- Stern: 17.20 ft / 5.24 m
- Average freeboard: 18.40 ft / 5.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 31.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.1 %
Waterplane Area: 22,439 Square feet or 2,085 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 191 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 613 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.23
- Longitudinal: 2.55
- Overall: 1.32
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather


Misc. weight usage:
- 1000t for science/exploration team and equipment
- 50t for flag accomodations
- 50t for two aircraft and stores
- 25t for catapult on aft barbette
- 25t for everything else

(Barbette simmed as 20" = 10" forward for 6" guns, 10" aft for fuel+stores for seaplanes)

Umm...I suppose you could. But I'm not sure why. I'm sure you could get a much more useful purpose-built vessel on much less tonnage.

Part 3 Chapter K Article V

Quoted

No alterations in side armor, in

calibre, number or general type of mounting of main armament shall be

permitted.

i.e. you've got to keep those 12" guns

When I introduced the Arctica class, Peng and I, with a few others, decided on a hull strength of 1.5. Your design isn't too far off that. You also need a lot of fuel, since she will be operating at full power for long periods of time, even though she is only making ~2 knots. 15,000nm @ 15 kts seems to be enough for Antarctic missions. It seems a bit light if you intend going over Canada or Russia.


I decided on heavy underwater defenses because in his Springstyle for Titanic, Rick Robinson gave her being able to survive 4.3 torpedos, and I wanted Arctica to be able to survive much worse, since, after all, her job is to hit ice. Arctica can handle 18.4 torpedos. The 10cm of underwater bulkheads on the Arctica class, along with her 33m beam, is the big reason the Laptev Sea will survive her present unpleasantness, even if it takes until June to get her out

But the final killer is the treaty: No alterations to number or mounting of main guns. And those guns make her a capital ship, unless you can get her down to less than 8000 tons Standard, in which case she uses CDS tonnage.

In that case, I suppose I'll go for a new-build.

Thanks.

You are going to need a bigger can. There wasn't enough worms this time.

Speaking of worms...I've added an image for one of my light destroyers.

Is there room in Antartica for the Philipines to claim? Why not just use the Japanese area for research?

The Phillipines need an icebreaker? - ROTFL ; )

Cheers,

Quoted

Is there room in Antartica for the Philipines to claim?

Yup.

Quoted

Why not just use the Japanese area for research?

Why doesn't Atlantis? :-P National pride, baby...besides, like I said, there's oil in them thar penguins... :-D

Quoted

baby...besides, like I said, there's oil in them thar penguins

and there is oil in them thar Spratleys that are alot closer.

Still, I could just imagine the look on a navy minister's face when you ask him to go to cabinet to ask for funding for a Phillipino icebreaker. Just don't do it at the very start of the 2nd Quarter ; )

Cheers,

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral
Part 3 Chapter K Article V

Quoted

No alterations in side armor, in

calibre, number or general type of mounting of main armament shall be

permitted.

i.e. you've got to keep those 12" guns

Possible legal way? Let an enemy ship blow those turrets off your ship. :-)

It would make more sence for the Philipines IMHO to colaborate with its SATSUMA ally's who already have territory there. Why fund new research stations when you can rent the space cheaper?

We could argue that Atlantis could use the French territory to research but Atlantis isn't an emerging power.

Remember we are talking about the Philipines here. I'm not trying to shoot down your idea but it seems unlikely for the Philipines, even a slightly more advanced wesworld version.

Quoted

it seems unlikely for the Philipines, even a slightly more advanced wesworld version.

Let's just say our megalomaniac Foreign Minister proposed the idea. What 'The Eagle' wants, The Eagle tends to get.

Interesting to think what might happen, if he were to become El Presidente...

That reminds me of a good anonymous quote,

"eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines"

So you're saying that you already have jet engines on the Atlantean planes?

Anybody read Dilbert?

What is a jet engine to those in 1926?