WesWorld

The 4th Ship of the Zara Class cruisers is going to be built as a slightly different design. The hull is slightly lengthened and of different form. The installed power is less at 88,000shp but speed only drops by about 0.5knts. The armament is more or less the same as Zara but with 2x47mm mounts being located forwards instead of aft.

The weight saved from the changes to hull form and machinery allow for more armour. The belt has been increased to 190mm thickness over the magazines, staying at 150mm thickness over the machinery. This gives an average thickness of 159.65mm.

The deck armour is increased over Zara. There is 25mm splinter armour forward of the citadel and 70mm protection to the steering gear. Over the magazines the deck thickness is 100mm, over the machinery it is 70mm thick. 68.53mm average thickness.

Immune zone vs. 8"/50

Magazines 10,000-27,000yds
Machinery 14,000-24,000yds

Immune zone vs. 150mm/55

Magazines 4,000+
Machinery 7,000+

The Turret armour is also improved. 190mm faces, 150mm sides, 100mm roof and 150mm barbette.

RM Gorizia, Italian Cruiser laid down 1928

Displacement:
10,975 t light; 11,477 t standard; 13,048 t normal; 14,304 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
628.92 ft / 608.60 ft x 67.59 ft x 23.62 ft (normal load)
191.70 m / 185.50 m x 20.60 m x 7.20 m

Armament:
8 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (8x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
12 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 2,743 lbs / 1,244 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 6.29" / 160 mm 360.89 ft / 110.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.48" / 190 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.70" / 69 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 88,000 shp / 65,648 Kw = 31.13 kts
Range 5,200nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,827 tons

Complement:
609 - 793

Cost:
£3.961 million / $15.843 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 321 tons, 2.5 %
Armour: 3,052 tons, 23.4 %
- Belts: 951 tons, 7.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 698 tons, 5.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,332 tons, 10.2 %
- Conning Tower: 71 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,740 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,813 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,073 tons, 15.9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,573 lbs / 7,064 Kg = 61.0 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.470
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.67 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Mid (38 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 17.73 ft / 5.41 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.1 %
Waterplane Area: 26,683 Square feet or 2,479 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 572 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.23
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

...

*waves hand*
You want to install a foremast.



^_^

Yes you still need a forward mast.
I image you could use the after mast for signal flags, etc but that function is a lot easier when co-located int he bridge area. Also they would not be hidden in smoke from the forward funnel.

Call me a heretic - but what do you need so much armor on a cruiser for?

It´s still not enough to take on BBs but excessive to counter cruiser fire. I´m inclined to call it a waste...

Nevertheless, the combined firepower, armor and speed adds for an impressive design.

Nice drawing too albeit I second the others comments about a forward mast. I also got the impression deck height in her forward superstructure is a little bit low. Might be an optical effect, though.

All that armor does seem excessive but it won't influence my future builds anyway, in fact I'm trying to downsize the next class of cruisers, making them similar to the Chilean Atacama class but a tad larger.

This ship has an ugly bridge when compaired to the other Italian beauty's, it kinda makes her look like an Italian Nelson but as far as everything else go's shes quite a nice looking design.

I mainly just wanted to see what I needed to sacrifice in order to get good protection against 203mm weapons. Shes still vulnerable to torpedoes, I needed to increase the size quite a bit to take that into account. The armour isn't really a waste, she can wipe the floor with 152mm gunned opponents.

I might add a very short foremast like with historical Zara and Bolzano. The forward tower is a bit lower than it should be. I'll fix it.

Below is the version with even more armour and protection against torpedoes. Too big and too little firepower for me I think though. She does look good though.



Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1932

Displacement:
12,886 t light; 13,476 t standard; 15,238 t normal; 16,649 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
650.31 ft / 629.92 ft x 70.01 ft x 24.93 ft (normal load)
198.21 m / 192.00 m x 21.34 m x 7.60 m

Armament:
9 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 276.24lbs / 125.30kg shells, 1932 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
20 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (10x2 guns), 33.07lbs / 15.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
18 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns (6x3 guns), 3.86lbs / 1.75kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 3,217 lbs / 1,459 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.95" / 75 mm 423.23 ft / 129.00 m 9.19 ft / 2.80 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 6.44" / 164 mm 423.23 ft / 129.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 423.23 ft / 129.00 m 24.61 ft / 7.50 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.48" / 190 mm 4.92" / 125 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 1.18" / 30 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.72" / 69 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 84,000 shp / 62,664 Kw = 31.20 kts
Range 6,000nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,173 tons

Complement:
685 - 891

Cost:
£5.043 million / $20.170 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 371 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 4,459 tons, 29.3 %
- Belts: 1,599 tons, 10.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 607 tons, 4.0 %
- Armament: 659 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 1,517 tons, 10.0 %
- Conning Tower: 78 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,479 tons, 16.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,476 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,353 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,364 lbs / 10,144 Kg = 87.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 3.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.40
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.485
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.94 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m
- Stern: 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Average freeboard: 18.48 ft / 5.63 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 102.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.6 %
Waterplane Area: 30,137 Square feet or 2,800 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 121 lbs/sq ft or 590 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

150mm Machinery 190mm Magazines=165.21 average

25mm forward
70mm Machinery 90mm Magazines
70mm stearing gear
=68.51average

A 13kts design with a bc below 0,5 and a transom stern while her speed is below 32kn?

I like the second design much more, espeacially the bridge.

As for the first design wiping the floor vs any other opponent, she sure as hell better be able to with that amount of armor but only because she can outlast the punishment the others dish out. Hell she can even outlast Algerie, arguably the best CA design prewar.

If she faces numbers or a BC shes dead meat, and if she encounters a 10 or 12x8" gunned cruiser shes gonna soak up the hits faster than she can dish em out.

You also seem to have a phobia of fore masts too RA!

You are required, by naval practice and common sense to have a main mast. That aft mast will not do to replace it. It is simple fact that you need it for signaling, flags or lights, The national and other penants, lookouts, spotters, spotlights, running lights, and later radar, and radio arrays.

It needs to be near the bridge for the running lights, and is required by international maritime law.

Can you see a foremast here?

Quoted

A 13kts design with a bc below 0,5 and a transom stern while her speed is below 32kn?

Why not?

Quoted

Can you see a foremast here?

Actually I can. It is incorperated into the forward structure. It is very short and possible collapsible, but it is there and I can see it. It isn't on your drawings.

You can see here how they went about designing the superstructure to fulfill the purpose of the main mast, yet it still does have a short mast on top and all the booms of a mast on the sides of the structure.

So do I. It's barely visible but the slightly darker spot there gives away its position.
Also, since the aft mast is better visible, you might want to avoid using black for the forward mast when you draw it. After all, the forward mast is thinner than the aft mast.

Why the 75mm main belt and the 164mm upper belt?

I might note that the historical vessel's mast is more amidships which is legal as for a ship of that type, with one mast (in this case the main mast, though the superstructure fills the function of the main mast due to how they built it), that one mast has to be near the center of the ship for the running lights and signal flags.