WesWorld

May 12th 1924

The navy has revised the Menelaus class heavy cruiser design to include several scout planes and the new 4.5" twin mount recently completed. In addition 2 more cruisers of the Menelaus class tentatively named Astyanax and Sarpedon have been ordered and a new design is in the works, the Apollo class.



Given the recent rebuild of the cruiser Active, its expected that the remaining Medusa and Pioneer class cruisers will be converted in a similar manor.

May 27th, 1924

A large storm in the Illisian Sea claimed the lives of 4 fishermen today. Their boat was one of 3 sunk in the storm, another fishing boat and a pleasure yacht being the others. The second fishing boats crew was rescued by the destroyer Gypsy while the Pleasure yachts crew and passengers were rescued by a nearby passenger ship the Cassandra.

June 12th 1924

The conference in Bucharest began today as the last delegates to arrive where the Yugoslavians and Bulgarians. The first order of Buisness for the Atlantian delegation is to turn over the former Austro/Hungarian ships still interned to the various nations, made al the more complicated by the interest expressed by the Philipino Govt. over the Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand class pre dreadnoughts.

The Yugoslavians have also expressed interest in these ships but lack the resorces to man them, while Atlantis is reluctant to hand one over to the Bulgarians given their role in the great war.

Aside from the issue of interned ships Atlantis is also looking to improve trade relations with the Balkan nations.

June 13th 1924

The Romanian and Atlantian govt's have come to an agreement reguarding the hand over of interned ships.
Midway through the talks a deal was also made between the Phillipino and Romanian delagates on the purchase of the DD's Solitario and Avestruz. As a result of these taks the Romanian fleet will recieve following ships.

PD Radetzky
CL Saida
4 Tatra class DD's
two Filipino DDs Solitario and Avestruz
6 Huzzar TB's (ex DD's)
2 subs (SS XXXII and XXVII)

Most of these ships will be laid up for some time as Romania lacks sufficient manpower to maintain such a huge addition to their fleet.

The Bulgarians also recieved some ships despite the concerns of Atlantian delegates, and the Bulgarians are ingaging in talks with the Phillipino's.

Currently the Bulgarians have recieved the following ships.

PD Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand
4 Huzzar TB's (ex DD's)

Finnally Yugoslavia also recieved a small share of the booty, in the so called "Atlantian firesale". The Yugoslavians received the followign ships.

CL Novara
4 Tatra class DD's

The next order of buisness for the Atlantian delegates is to complete the preposed trade agreements between the various nations.

June 14th 1924

The Atlantian delegates at the trade conference in Bucharest concluded the talks with reasonably lucrative trade deals with Romainia, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.
The most important deal was struck with the Romanians in which Romania agreed to increase oil exports to Atlantis by 3000 barrels a day in exchange for an increase in the exports of various raw materials.
In a similar deal Yugoslavia will be recieving much needed Industrial machinery, while the Bulgarians succeeded in forming deals that would see them recieve increased amounts of Iron ore, Orichalcum (high grade Copper) and Tin in exchange for increased export of refined petrol.

The Manila Evening Times
June 15 1924

The Filipino Government yesterday announced a three-party deal brokered near the close of the Budapest Conference.

The Yugoslav Navy will recieve three 'R'-class torpedo boats - the R-1, R-2 and R-3).

The proceeds from this sale, along with those from the sale of the two destroyers to Rumania, have been used to purchase the Erherzog Franz Ferdinand from Bulgaria. This sale is made on the condition that the Bulgarians place the proceeds from the sale towards the payment of their Great War reparations.

To sweeten the deal, the Filipinos have thrown in the pre-dreadnought battleship Angeles.

To recap, the three Balkan navies have received:
to Romania:
from Atlantis:
Radetzky, battleship
Saida, light cruiser
4 Tatra-class destroyers
6 Huszar-class torpedo boats
2 'UB-II'-class submarines
from the Philippines:
2 Solitario-class destroyers

to Bulgaria
from Atlantis:
4 Huszar-class torpedo boats
from the Philippines:
Angeles, battleship

to Yugoslavia
from Atlantis:
Novara, light cruiser
4 Tatra-class destroyers
from the Philippines:
3 R-1-class torpedo boats

And to the Philippines
Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand, battleship

In other news from the Bucharest Conference, the Philippines Petroleum Co. has signed deals to purchase oil from both Russia and Rumania; a spokesman for PPC stated that the terms of the deals were 'a confidential business matter'.

The Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand was promptly rechristened Fernando, and is currently preparing to get underway for its new home...assuming Commodore Garcia does not overload the ship with Grecian and Turkish delicacies and sink her.

BTW those are sharp-looking cruisers Wes!

------


Radetzky-class, laid down 1907

Length, 448 ft x Beam, 80.33 ft x Depth, 26.5 ft
14986 tons normal displacement (14424 tons standard)

Main battery: 4 x 12.00-inch / 305mm (2 x 2)
Secondary battery: 8 x 9.40-inch / 240mm (4 x 2)
QF battery: 20 x 3.94-inch / 100mm
Light battery: 6 x 3.46-inch / 88mm

Weight of broadside: 7514 lbs

3 TT, 17.7" (submerged)

Main belt, 9.0 inches; bow and stern, 4.0 inches
Upper belt, 6.0 inches
Armor deck, average 1.88 inches
C.T., 10.0 inches

Battery armor:
Main, 9.75" / secondary, 8.0"
QF, 4.75"

Maximum speed for 19983 ihp = 19.90 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 3500 nm / 10 kts

Typical complement: 677-880


Estimated cost, $6.289 million (£1.572 million)

Remarks:

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Main deck QF guns subject to being washed down in a seaway.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 939 tons = 6 pct
Armor, total ..................... 4914 tons = 33 pct

Belt 2111 tons = 14 pct
Deck 839 tons = 6 pct
C.T. 131 tons = 1 pct
Armament 1833 tons = 12 pct

Machinery ........................ 2220 tons = 15 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 5425 tons = 36 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1488 tons = 10 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 0 tons = 0 pct
-----
14986 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 4.2 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 13498 tons
Standard displacement: 14424 tons
Normal service: 14986 tons
Full load: 15376 tons

Loading submergence 689 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.09

Shellfire needed to sink: 13308 lbs = 15.4 x 12.0-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 1.9
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 61 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.56

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.23

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.55
Sharpness coefficient: 0.42
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 5.56
'Natural speed' for length = 21.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 49 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 99 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 102 percent


Displacement factor: 89 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.94
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 157 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.89
(for 15.0 ft average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment -1.4 ft)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

448.00 x 80.33 x 26.50; 15.00 -- Dimensions
0.55 -- Block coefficient
1907 -- Year laid down
19.90 / 3500 / 10.00; Reciprocating -- Speed / radius / cruise
0 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
4 x 12.00; 2; 0 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
:
8 x 9.40; 4 -- Secondary battery; turrets
:
20 x 3.94 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Main deck battery
:
6 x 3.46 -- Fourth (light) battery
3 / 3 / 17.70 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
9.00 / 4.00 / 6.00 / 0.00; 100 -- Belt armor; relative extent
1.88 / 10.00 -- Deck / CT
9.75 / 8.00 / 4.75 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

---------


Saida-class CL, laid down 1911

Length, 410.75 ft x Beam, 42.0 ft x Depth, 15.0 ft
3549 tons normal displacement (2627 tons standard)

Main battery: 9 x 4.10-inch / 105mm
QF battery: 1 x 3.00-inch / 76mm
Light battery: 1 x 0.30-inch / 7.7mm

Weight of broadside: 324 lbs

3 x 2 TT, 17.7"

Main belt, 2.5 inches; ends unarmored
Armor deck, average 0.75 inches
C.T., 2.5 inches

Maximum speed for 25005 shp = 26.77 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 1600 nm / 24 kts

Typical complement: 230-299


Estimated cost, $1.115 million (£279,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Relative extent of belt armor, 112 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 40 tons = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 398 tons = 11 pct

Belt 239 tons = 7 pct
Deck 146 tons = 4 pct
C.T. 12 tons = 0 pct

Machinery ........................ 1116 tons = 31 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 965 tons = 27 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1020 tons = 29 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 10 tons = 0 pct
-----
3549 tons = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 3.1 ft

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 2529 tons
Standard displacement: 2627 tons
Normal service: 3549 tons
Full load: 4272 tons

Loading submergence 301 tons/foot

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.65

Shellfire needed to sink: 3186 lbs = 92.5 x 4.1-inch shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.8
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 54 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.07

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.08

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.48
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.23
'Natural speed' for length = 20.3 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 55 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 111 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 94 percent


Displacement factor: 120 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.83
(Structure weight per square
foot of hull surface: 55 lbs)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.00
(for 12.3 ft average freeboard)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.85

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

410.75 x 42.00 x 15.00; 12.30 -- Dimensions
0.48 -- Block coefficient
1911 -- Year laid down
26.77 / 1600 / 24.00; Turbine, coal fired -- Speed / radius / cruise
10 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
9 x 4.10; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
:
0 -- No secondary battery
1 x 3.00 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
:
1 x 0.30 -- Fourth (light) battery
6 / 0 / 17.70 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
2.50 / 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00; 112 -- Belt armor; relative extent
0.75 / 2.50 -- Deck / CT
0.00 -- No battery armor


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"BTW those are sharp-looking cruisers Wes!"

Why thank you! wait till we start rolling into the thirty's, Atlantis will be vieing for the "most beautifull light cruisers". For a hint of what they wil ressemble all you have to do is look at my current CA's and the recent rebuild of the Active.

The Manila Times
30 June 1924

The PRS Fernando, the Philippines' newest battleship, arrived today in Manila Harbour.

At the welcoming ceremony, Admiral Juan Diego de la Vega, Jefe of the Marina de Filipina, announced that at the Bucharest Conference, the Philippines signed the Cleito Naval Limitation Treaty.

"This is another step torwards the Philippines taking its rightful place on the world stage," stated Admiral de la Vega.

Under the Cleito Treaty terms, the Philippines will be limited to:
120,000 tons of 'Capital Ships', of which four may be built.
40,000 tons of Coast Defense Ships.
30,000 tons of Aircraft Carriers.
120,000 tons of Cruisers, including 36,000 tons of Large Cruisers.
48,000 tons of Destroyers, including 9,600 tons of Large Destroyers.
26,400 tons of Submarines including 13,200 tons of Fleet Submarines, of which 10 may be built.

Admiral de la Vega stated that the Cleito Treaty will take effect for the Philippines on 1 January 1925, and will expire on 31 December, 1936.

Under the Cleito Treaty, the following Filipino ships are classed as Capital Ships:
the 'new' battleship Fernando
the old battleship Manila
the cruisers Luzon and Mindoro.

Admiral de la Vega stated that the Mindoro will be taken out of service in September, and will be converted to an aircraft carrier. The new light battlecruiser Basilan will take her place in the lineup.

Under Cleito Treaty rules - Part 3, A, VI - the Philippines can lay down two new ships to replace the Manila and Luzon; Admiral de la Vega stated that the design for these ships will also be announced in September.

"We will have an announcement on 4 September, which will cover the decommissioning and conversion of the Mindoro, the launch of the Basilan, and the unveiling of the Samal-class battlecruiser. We invite our friends in Japan, India and South Africa to attend this event."

Those are nice looking cruisers indeed. I especially like their bows and clean lines in general. They seem to be influenced by french and american designs, am I right?

Why have you left out her masts on those top views?

Isn´t the gap between A and B barbet (C & D resp.) a little bit huge? Shouldn´t those turrets be closer together?

Wouldn´t turret B turn against that bridgestructure just behind it?

Regards,

HoOmAn

Thanx for the constructive critisism Hoo, I can always trust you to find an improvement in a design!!

I'll answer your points...

"They seem to be influenced by french and american designs, am I right?"

You are correct sir, they are based on the Pensacola class CA's, only they are up-armoured cousins. I'm basically trying to make them look similar to my battlecruisers in reguards to asethetics. I also through in some French influence with the cranes and general bridge layout (with a few tweaks).

"Why have you left out her masts on those top views?"

Depending on the design, I may or may not show the masts in a top veiw, so as to keep the picture uncluttered and to show the general bridge deck layout.
I do at the very least show where the masts are located on the first deck that you would be able to see them on from above.

"Isn´t the gap between A and B barbet (C & D resp.) a little bit huge? Shouldn´t those turrets be closer together?

Wouldn´t turret B turn against that bridgestructure just behind it?"

I've always thought that a larger gap between the turrets would minimize damage to both turrets from a single hit, this logic may or may not be wrong? Some of it has to do with the fact that I'm not entirely sure the turrets are the right size.

As to the bridge structure you may be right, but thankfully I have the room to move the bridge structure aft.

Aside from this I'm surprized you didn't notice that the Phillipines has decided to sign the CT! At least I can take pride in knowing my cruisers can steal all the news!

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
"Isn´t the gap between A and B barbet (C & D resp.) a little bit huge? Shouldn´t those turrets be closer together?

Wouldn´t turret B turn against that bridgestructure just behind it?"

I've always thought that a larger gap between the turrets would minimize damage to both turrets from a single hit, this logic may or may not be wrong? Some of it has to do with the fact that I'm not entirely sure the turrets are the right size.

Their size seems okay to me. There always was some difference between countries. The French for example always had relatively small turrets while the Germans used large gunhouses.

As for limiting damage... Well, your argumentation is correct but your´re spreading your vitals and thus a lengthier belt is necessary adding weight. That´s - beside hull space restrictions - the main reason why it wasn´t done historically, I guess. In WesWorld it won´t have any influence on your spring* design but I thought I better mention it.

Quoted

As to the bridge structure you may be right, but thankfully I have the room to move the bridge structure aft.

Well, it´s a matter of centimeters I guess. It just looks as if those rangefinders will ram against the lower balcony.

Quoted

Aside from this I'm surprized you didn't notice that the Phillipines has decided to sign the CT! At least I can take pride in knowing my cruisers can steal all the news!

It hasn´t escaped me but not being an unexpected move to me I first wanted to see more people response. Btw, I wonder if there is an anual meeting of CT signatories or something? When, where and how should the ceremony be held once a new signatory is found?

yes I'm kinda waiting too for everyones responce.

Also for your enjoyment Hoo I've added some links to my warship pictures in my fleet list,including the Arrogant class carriers.

Revised the cruiser pics, are they better now?

Hi there...

I think it looks much better now.

Regarding those masts omitted... Well, got your point but I´d prefer to have them drawn on that top view.

Keep ´em coming,

HoOmAn

Quoted

waiting...for everyones responce.

And everyone waits for everyone else, and nothing ever gets posted.

Until it's too late...

Quoted

Originally posted by Swamphen
And everyone waits for everyone else, and nothing ever gets posted.

Until it's too late...

And ignorant people sleep in their beds
Like the doped white mice in the college lab.....

Well, this IGNORANT person is still waiting to see an official request from the Phillipines to join the C.T., because at this moment the only thing that has been mentioned is what the Phillipines would be allowed according to the treaty draft, no mention has been made of negoation for different limits.

Quoted

VI. NON-CONTRACTING POWERS WISHING TO BE SIGNATORY POWERS

Any Non-Contracting Power wishing to commit itself to this treaty, shall be allowed to do so by communicating to the Government of the Kingdom of Atlantis its intentions and by dispatching, to the Government of Atlantis, Plenipotentiaries authorised to sign for the Power the treaty. The nation shall be considered joined to and bound by the treaty when such plenipotentiaries have placed their signature on the document original. The Government of Atlantis shall then communicate the admission of the Signature Party to the other Contracting Powers. Any Contracting Power thus joined shall be counted as a Power of the lowest tier, with allowances equal to those of Greece, or equal to those of India, at the discretion of the Contracting Power joining.

(emphasis added)

The Filipino delegates at the Bucharest conference (Commodore Garcia and Chief Reyes) were empowered to sign the Treaty, in the presence of the Atlantian delegation, and Filipino discretion chose the Greek limits. The only bone to contend is that the Filipinos jumped the gun on the announcement (by announcing before Atlantis did); but since it was agreed that the Filipinos are not bound to the Treaty until 1 January '25 there's plenty of time for comment.

Besides, Denmark is not a CT signatory, so although the protests are noted...

I didn't see it posted, but that is not what got under my skin....

So my apologies if I was taken the wrong way, my ire was not directed at you Swamphen!

Hmmm, according to the treaty, no negotiation is nessassary! If no one has any problems Atlantis can anounce the signing officially.

I have no problem with the Phillipines signing the treaty, it's being called IGNORANT by someone who doesn't know me from Adam that gets me steamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that was a joke I say a joke, son. Joke, that is.