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I'll take a stab at it, but the 22-knot 'submerged burst / attack speed' requirement makes it ambitious for most 1950s submarines, let alone a 1940s submarine. You really don't get that kind of performance without incorporating nuclear power.
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I'll take a stab at it, but the 22-knot 'submerged burst / attack speed' requirement makes it ambitious for most 1950s submarines, let alone a 1940s submarine. You really don't get that kind of performance without incorporating nuclear power.
Well, OTL there were the Japanese 1937 Submarine No.71 which was intended to go 25 knots (but only managed to get to just over 21 knots) and the German 1940 V-80 with its 28 knots thanks to its propulsion system so while ambitious, it does not look to be impossible for a late 1940s submarine...
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Both experimental submarines, though. I'd even classify the V-80 derivative Type XVIIs as an experimental submarine.
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Most series-built diesel-electric submarines (mostly oceanic-sized subs) tend to have speeds of ~18 knots or lower, whether they're 1940s, 1950s, or even 1960s boats. For instance, the Oberon-class boats from the 1960s only make around seventeen knots submerged. (I forget the exact speed figure.) Coastal submarines through the 1960s usually didn't exceed 15 knots (for instance, the Russian Quebecs, the Japanese Ha-201, etc).
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I will state no maximum surfaced speed
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diesel fuel allowance for 14 days constant cruise at 10kts plus 5% time spent at 20kts
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Both experimental submarines, though. I'd even classify the V-80 derivative Type XVIIs as an experimental submarine.
True, but with the Type XVII (which I actually had not looked at) you are not that far off if you do not care about the well-being of the crew of the vessel.
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Most series-built diesel-electric submarines (mostly oceanic-sized subs) tend to have speeds of ~18 knots or lower, whether they're 1940s, 1950s, or even 1960s boats. For instance, the Oberon-class boats from the 1960s only make around seventeen knots submerged. (I forget the exact speed figure.) Coastal submarines through the 1960s usually didn't exceed 15 knots (for instance, the Russian Quebecs, the Japanese Ha-201, etc).
Funny. 18 knots was what I was thinking of as a reasonable maximum speed based on the list I made. 17-18 knots should probably be the target to go for. As for the coastal submarine's 15 knots, would the size of those boats not play a bit of a factor in that?
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Palinure-class Submarine
Date: 1948
Type: Oceanic
Length: 49.6m
Beam: 5.9m
Draft: 4.0m
Crush depth: 225m
Light Displacement 415t
Loaded Displacement 471t
Full Displacement 585t
wt fuel&batts: 115t
Reserve buoyancy: 20%
Armament:
- 4 x 550mm (bow)
- 16 tons for mines or reload torpedoes
ElecHP: 2100hp
DieselHP: 820hp
Speed:
- Max Surf Speed: 11.9 knots
- Max Sub Speed: 16.1 knots
Range:
- Surfaced: 4153nm@10 knots
- Submerged: 122nm@6 knots / 15nm@12 knots
Tons Oil: 40.0t
Tons Battery: 75.0t
Miscellaneous Weight: 24 tons
Crew: 22
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Grondin-class Submarine
Date: 1948
Type: Coastal
Length: 58m
Beam: 6.7m
Draft: 5.3m
Crush depth: 225m
Light Displacement 730t
Loaded Displacement 904t
Full Displacement 1030t
wt fuel&batts: 360t
Reserve buoyancy: 12%
Armament:
- 8 x 550mm (bow)
- 14 tons for mines or reload torpedoes
ElecHP: 2800hp
DieselHP: 2400hp
Speed:
- Max Surf Speed: 14.9 knots
- Max Sub Speed: 15.7 knots
Range:
- Surfaced: 7666nm@12 knots
- Submerged: 238nm@6 knots / 38nm@12 knots
Tons Oil: 160.0t
Tons Battery: 200.0t
Miscellaneous Weight: 53 tons
Crew: 32
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Well ok, at least we know where the bleeding edge is. In Belgium's defence they have no submarine arm and therefore one Captain reading a bit of Jules Verne probably hasn't worked out too well.
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Still has a lot of unnecessary misc weight though, could probably trim about 26 tons off the misc weight, that would boost the reserve buoyancy a little.
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Just to throw the question out there... at what point ought the sub be simmed as 'oceanic' rather than 'coastal'? At least in terms of displacement, Walter's design is larger than avowed "ocean-going" designs like the Type IX Uboat, and approaching the size of a Type XXI.
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Just to throw the question out there... at what point ought the sub be simmed as 'oceanic' rather than 'coastal'? At least in terms of displacement, Walter's design is larger than avowed "ocean-going" designs like the Type IX Uboat, and approaching the size of a Type XXI.
To be honest, in my opinion the limit should be at ~500 tons max (slightly higher than the Cleito Treaty max) so my vessel is well beyond the limit of that to be allowed to be a coastal submarine. To me, even the Type VII is an ocean-going submarine with the lightest version being ~600 tons. But having looked around, there are the French Daphne and Thetis and the Grondin you posted above and the the Filipino Aluhaman, Audaz and Tirador which are of similar size as or slightly bigger than the Type VIIA but with greater range and they are simmed as coastal submarines which to me is incorrect.
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My own (very informal) rule-of-thumb was to keep coastal submarines under 1,000 t light or loaded displacement; but when I'm seeing coastal designs over 1,500 loaded displacement, I have to start wondering.
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