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1

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 4:20pm

Patrol cruiser

I'm curious to get your thoughts on this notional use of CDS tonnage.

What we're looking at is the front half of a light cruiser, welded to the back half of a seaplane carrier, not unlike recent Italian and Chilean vessels. Its purpose is to observe a large chunk of Indian waters, and protect the civilian shipping within that chunk. It's not intended to operate with fleet warships.

The ship has sufficient aerial scouting capability (six planes, two cats) to observe a large area. At the moment, I assume these would be Dhairya aircraft with a light strike capabilty, but if enough of these ships were to be produced, India might secure a torpedo-scout bomber aircraft instead. The upper belt is intended to protect the aviation facilities from light shell fire.

The ship also has sufficient firepower and protection to take on the more likely surface threats to commerce - armed merchant raiders and warships up to CL size. Speed is not great, but is sufficient to run down any civilian ship except the fastest liners or manuever with a convoy. In a convoy situation, this might act as the flagship to a collection of more ASW/AA oriented vessels.

Thoughts?

Patrol Cruiser, laid down 1930

Length, 155.0 m x Beam, 17.0 m x Depth, 5.0 m
6110 tonnes normal displacement (5227 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 6 x 15.0-cm (2 x 3; 1 superfiring - all forward)
Secondary battery: 8 x 10.5-cm (4x2 deck mounts, amidships)
AA battery: 8 x 3.5-cm (4x2)
Light battery: 8 x 1.5-cm (2x4)

Weight of broadside: 414 kg

8 TT, 55.0 cm (2x4)

Main belt, 10.0 cm; ends unarmored
Upper belt, 10.0 cm
Armor deck, average 5.0 cm
Conning tower, 10.0 cm

Battery armor:
Main, 10.0 cm / secondary, 3.0 cm shields
AA, 2.0 cm shields / light guns, 2.0 cm shields

Maximum speed for 18005 shaft kw = 24.82 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 15000 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 346-449


Estimated cost, $6.257 million (£1.564 million)

Remarks:

Main turrets are grouped together.

Relative extent of belt armor, 60 percent of 'typical' coverage.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Excellent seaboat; comfortable and able to fight her guns
in the heaviest weather.

Magazines and engineering spaces are roomy, with superior
watertight subdivision.

Ship is roomy, with superior accommodation and working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 114 tonnes = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 1412 tonnes = 23 pct

Belt 548 tonnes = 9 pct
Deck 614 tonnes = 10 pct
C.T. 28 tonnes = 0 pct
Armament 222 tonnes = 4 pct

Machinery ........................ 731 tonnes = 12 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 2572 tonnes = 42 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 1082 tonnes = 18 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 200 tonnes = 3 pct
-----
6110 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.9 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 5028 tonnes
Standard displacement: 5227 tonnes
Normal service: 6110 tonnes
Full load: 6793 tonnes

Loading submergence 1579 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.20

Shellfire needed to sink: 6494 kg = 138.7 x 15.0-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 2.6
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 73 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.34

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.82

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.46
Sharpness coefficient: 0.33
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.50
'Natural speed' for length = 22.5 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 46 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 58 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 141 percent


Displacement factor: 154 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.95
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 448 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.61
(for 5.70 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +1.52 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

508.40 x 55.76 x 16.40; 18.70 -- Dimensions
0.46 -- Block coefficient
1930 -- Year laid down
24.82 / 15000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
200 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
6 x 5.91; 2; 1 -- Main battery; turrets; superfiring
Central positioning of guns
:
8 x 4.13; 0 -- Secondary battery; turrets
Gun-shields
:
8 x 1.38 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
8 x 0.59 -- Fourth (light) battery
8 / 0 / 21.65 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
3.94 / 0.00 / 3.94 / 0.00; 60 -- Belt armor; relative extent
1.97 / 3.94 -- Deck / CT
3.94 / 1.18 / 0.79 / 0.79 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


2

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 8:21pm

Interesting idea... Interesting design.
Naturally with a speed of 24.82 knots, it will not fall into the CDS category. ;-)
With seaboat quality at 1.82, is it an idea to lower freeboard slightly to free up a bit of hullstrength?

3

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 8:31pm

Does it say 24.82 knots? I meant 24.00 knots. Really.

If anything I might need to raise the freeboard. It depends on whether the hanger is below decks or above decks. Anyway, the freeboard can't hurt during cyclone season.

4

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 9:15pm

Don't tell me you're afraid of those puny cyclones!!
*sees cyclone-hit Japanese cruiser float past upside down*
... on second thought...
:-)
Of course you have to realize that in order to give your planes protection, your upper belt needs to have some height. The Italian carriers are a good example.
Messing around a bit, I got it to this... and I am not entirely happy with upper belt height. If a Dhairya fits in there, it could be a tight fit...

Tendulkar, India Patrol Cruiser laid down 1930

Displacement:
5,035 t light; 5,245 t standard; 6,111 t normal; 6,804 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
530.73 ft / 508.53 ft x 55.77 ft x 16.40 ft (normal load)
161.77 m / 155.00 m x 17.00 m x 5.00 m

Armament:
6 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x3 guns), 113.62lbs / 51.54kg shells, 1930 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1930 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 976 lbs / 443 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 182.09 ft / 55.50 m 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 182.09 ft / 55.50 m 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
Main Belt covers 55 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21,448 shp / 16,000 Kw = 24.07 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,558 tons

Complement:
345 - 449

Cost:
£1.546 million / $6.183 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 122 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 1,641 tons, 26.8 %
- Belts: 810 tons, 13.3 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 138 tons, 2.3 %
- Armour Deck: 664 tons, 10.9 %
- Conning Tower: 28 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 650 tons, 10.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,423 tons, 39.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,076 tons, 17.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 3.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
13,999 lbs / 6,350 Kg = 123.2 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 13.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.33
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.62

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.460
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.93 ft / 7.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Stern: 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Average freeboard: 15.88 ft / 4.84 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.6 %
Waterplane Area: 18,238 Square feet or 1,694 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 148 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 88 lbs/sq ft or 430 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

5

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 9:29pm

Since the hangar doesn't span the entire length of the ship, you could make the upper belt shorter and taller.
[SIZE=1]...that sounds a little odd, eh? :-)[/SIZE]

I use a UB height of 5m for my carriers.

6

Thursday, August 25th 2005, 9:34pm

I was thinking about that, but left it with the same length as the main belt. I wasn't sure how much space the planes would be needing. With a picture, it could be determined how much exactly is needed...
... on the other hand, part of the 55.5 meters on each side could be used to protect front and rear as well...
... and yes, it does sound odd. ^_^

7

Friday, August 26th 2005, 12:46am

Coincidence?

Strange But I had the same idea. Here is my preliminary design.

Enter ship name, Australia Seaplane carrier laid down 1929

Displacement:
4,348 t light; 4,585 t standard; 6,000 t normal; 7,132 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
400.00 ft / 400.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 20.00 ft (normal load)
121.92 m / 121.92 m x 15.24 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3 mounts), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
40 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (20x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,232 lbs / 559 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 0.0" / 0 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.90" / 74 mm 240.00 ft / 73.15 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.90" / 74 mm - -
2nd: 1.20" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 23,572 shp / 17,585 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,546 tons

Complement:
340 - 443

Cost:
£1.532 million / $6.127 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 154 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 728 tons, 12.1 %
- Belts: 271 tons, 4.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 79 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 378 tons, 6.3 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 724 tons, 12.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,842 tons, 30.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,652 tons, 27.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 900 tons, 15.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
7,987 lbs / 3,623 Kg = 74.0 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 2.0 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 15.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.525
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 15.80 ft / 4.82 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.6 %
Waterplane Area: 13,636 Square feet or 1,267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 139 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 400 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 2.01
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

8

Friday, August 26th 2005, 1:36am

Interesting. I'd say I started a trend, but the conversion of the Hyatt made the vessel more like an unprotected cruiser that carries several floatplanes. She only has armor on the conning tower and guns mounts. Any armor she had while she was a light cruiser was removed save splinter armor.

9

Friday, August 26th 2005, 3:10am

Timid cruisers without the ability to run. If you are in a situation to need armour to protect the aircraft then your ship has a problem. If you need a cruiser then you are better off having 2 aircraft it can take to sea for an extended period rather than taking 6 for a shorter period. I'd have thought that India would go for a larger - mobile base concept - than a seaplane carrier. It also doesn't use restricted tonnage.

I guess the choices are a slow diet-Tone (probably too small), a Chitose or a USN style seaplane baseship. I've gone for the second base ship but I don't have the blue-water requirements you do.

Cheers,

10

Friday, August 26th 2005, 3:26am

Didn't some of the WW-2 era "Agano" light cruisers match this concept?
I believe they had triple main battery turrets forward and a seaplance hanger aft (the Oyodo was the name, i think).

11

Friday, August 26th 2005, 4:17am

I reckon a hanger length of about 130 ft, and a height of ~16' would be expected, assuming one elevator and the Dhairyas arranged in pairs.

Foxy: dude, there's just no way you're gonna get all those guns on that ship plus a flight area. But interesting to see your take on the concept.

Roger: I've been alluding to bases on most of my island chains in the past few news reports. I imagine this would replace a base ship model there. This particular type I have in mind more for the patrolling the large stretches of water between island chains, the middle of the Indian Ocean, and the sealane to South Africa.

I have considered using CDS tonnage to build a Teste-style seaplane carrier, and I've also been giving strong thought to building a couple of those 2000 t MTB tenders in a seaplane tender guise, like Big Rich had suggested.

As for the can't run away comment, show me a CDS that can...

John: Yes, Oyodo was similar although I believe much faster.

I appreciate the input so far. As Roger alludes to, I have a lot of blue water and not a lot of resources to cover it with. How best to do it?

12

Friday, August 26th 2005, 5:14am

Sim a LaGlassionerre(?) 9-6" 2 ac and a long quarterdeck. Now cut down the hull length based on only 24knots. It should be about 6000tons.

Cheers,

13

Friday, August 26th 2005, 5:15am

Quoted

Timid cruisers without the ability to run.
They're not sopposed to run. Armor and guns are for dealing with marauding destroyers and cruisers.

Quoted

Foxy: dude, there's just no way you're gonna get all those guns on that ship plus a flight area. But interesting to see your take on the concept.
I figured that out. That was an old version, my updated version is considerably larger.

Quoted

I believe they had triple main battery turrets forward and a seaplance hanger aft (the Oyodo was the name, i think).

John: Yes, Oyodo was similar although I believe much faster.
My current fleet plan includes 3 slow and 3 Fast (Oyodo type) seaplane carriers.

I think they have alot of potential, being cheaper than regular light cruisers, and more versatile.


Improved Larger Version:

Enter ship name, Australia Seaplane carrier laid down 1931

Displacement:
4,268 t light; 4,500 t standard; 5,860 t normal; 6,947 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
500.00 ft / 500.00 ft x 52.00 ft x 15.90 ft (normal load)
152.40 m / 152.40 m x 15.85 m x 4.85 m

Armament:
6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
24 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (3x8 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1931 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,212 lbs / 550 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 0.0" / 0 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.90" / 74 mm 240.00 ft / 73.15 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 74 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.90" / 74 mm - -
2nd: 1.20" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 20,934 shp / 15,617 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,447 tons

Complement:
334 - 435

Cost:
£1.590 million / $6.358 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 151 tons, 2.6 %
Armour: 738 tons, 12.6 %
- Belts: 276 tons, 4.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 79 tons, 1.3 %
- Armour Deck: 383 tons, 6.5 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 626 tons, 10.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,163 tons, 36.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,591 tons, 27.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 590 tons, 10.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
11,299 lbs / 5,125 Kg = 104.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 12.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.496
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.62 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.36 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 46
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Mid (50 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m (15.00 ft / 4.57 m before break)
- Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m
- Average freeboard: 14.55 ft / 4.43 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 147.7 %
Waterplane Area: 17,262 Square feet or 1,604 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 155 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 83 lbs/sq ft or 406 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.12
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

14

Friday, August 26th 2005, 5:38am

This biggest mistake a captain of one of these ships could make is to think he commands some sort of cruiser - just like US Army commanders of tank destroyers thought they had some kind of tank. In a gun action, extensive aviation facilities are a liability. You can't protect a ship of this size to the degree that you would need to fight even destroyers.

Cheers,

15

Friday, August 26th 2005, 7:36am

I have to agree with Roger on this one, your best bet to cover more ocean is a small 6000 ton cruiser with 2 planes rather than a slow cruiser with 6 aircraft and the rather volitile cargo they bring with them.

At 24 knots their more vulnerable than a carrier or cruiser to subs in the convoy escort role. The design would however be very suitable for littoral defence in home waters to free up more valuable units.

16

Friday, August 26th 2005, 6:15pm

Fast Seaplane Cruiser

"Speed is Life"

Filipino Jomalig-class seaplane cruiser, laid down 1935

Displacement:
7,692 t light; 7,998 t standard; 9,273 t normal; 10,294 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
609.66 ft / 593.83 ft x 59.71 ft x 20.34 ft (normal load)
185.82 m / 181.00 m x 18.20 m x 6.20 m

Air group:
8 aircraft

Armament:
6 - 6.10" / 155 mm guns (2x3 guns), 120.00lbs / 54.43kg shells, 1935 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (3x4 guns), 6.00lbs / 2.72kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1935 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.54" / 13.7 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.11lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1935 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring

Weight of broadside 992 lbs / 450 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

16 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.36" / 60 mm 349.41 ft / 106.50 m 9.35 ft / 2.85 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 0.98" / 25 mm 349.41 ft / 106.50 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.54" / 90 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.95" / 75 mm
2nd: 1.38" / 35 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.17" / 55 mm, Conning tower: 3.15" / 80 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,366 shp / 52,493 Kw = 32.25 kts
Range 11,500nm at 15.00 kts (Bunkerage = 2,296 tons)

Complement:
472 - 614

Cost:
£3.297 million / $13.189 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 117 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 1,601 tons, 17.3 %
- Belts: 468 tons, 5.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 162 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 941 tons, 10.1 %
- Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 1,999 tons, 21.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,525 tons, 38.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,581 tons, 17.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 4.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12,799 lbs / 5,806 Kg = 112.6 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.95 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.00 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 26.90 ft / 8.20 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Quarterdeck (21 %): 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Stern: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 18.16 ft / 5.53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 96.9 %
Waterplane Area: 23,495 Square feet or 2,183 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 133 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 97 lbs/sq ft or 473 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.30
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

17

Friday, August 26th 2005, 7:31pm

That is way I recommended using cruiser tonnage for such a vessel. Speed and size.

18

Friday, August 26th 2005, 8:12pm

If you believe in "Speed is Life", then you might want more speed out of that one, Swamphen.
^_^

Wesworld Oyodo, Japan Light Cruiser laid down 1932

Displacement:
7,860 t light; 8,159 t standard; 9,326 t normal; 10,260 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
629.19 ft / 620.08 ft x 54.46 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
191.78 m / 189.00 m x 16.60 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (2x3 guns), 105.00lbs / 47.63kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 34.00lbs / 15.42kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (4x3 guns), 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1926 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 925 lbs / 420 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.40" / 61 mm 454.00 ft / 138.38 m 8.86 ft / 2.70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 113 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 2.00" / 51 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 2.00" / 51 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
4th: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.20" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 2.75" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 97,478 shp / 72,718 Kw = 35.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,101 tons

Complement:
473 - 616

Cost:
£3.521 million / $14.085 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 115 tons, 1.2 %
Armour: 1,098 tons, 11.8 %
- Belts: 391 tons, 4.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 165 tons, 1.8 %
- Armour Deck: 515 tons, 5.5 %
- Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,877 tons, 30.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,570 tons, 38.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,466 tons, 15.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
8,931 lbs / 4,051 Kg = 86.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.491
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.39 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.17 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Stern: 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Average freeboard: 19.13 ft / 5.83 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.7 %
Waterplane Area: 23,204 Square feet or 2,156 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 93 lbs/sq ft or 456 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.97
- Longitudinal: 1.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

6 floatplanes

19

Friday, August 26th 2005, 10:52pm

Actually, wouldn't "Victory is Life" be a better saying for a naval combatant?

20

Friday, August 26th 2005, 11:02pm

He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.
... or perhaps He who fights and runs away, lives to "Die Another Day".
:-)