WesWorld

A real world example on infrastructure vs ship costs.

In 1913 The Cockatoo Island shipyard in Sydney Australia was sold from the New South Wales government to the Australian Federal government for £867,716. The breakdown included a Type 2 drydock (really more like a Type 2.5) and a Type 1 drydock for £350,000. There were also 2 Type 0 slips and 1 Type 2 slip.

[URL=http://books.google.com.au/books?id=1ulc79wlY54C&pg=PA219&lpg=PA219&dq=%22cockatoo+dockyard%22%2Bsale&source=web&ots=mc_PC0NwzG&sig=6gHqM-5N5H3rp4Q54VhtpmpbMPA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA26,M1]Source[/URL]

Contempory warship costs:
King George V - £1,965,000
Indefatigable - £1,547,426
Chatham class cruiser - £350,000
M class destroyer - £100,000

Perhaps our infrastructure is wildly over priced. 5IP = 1 6000ton cruiser in 1913.

Cheers,

I've thought a bit about this and, honestly, I'm not entirely sure it matters for docks and slips: most countries in sim have ended up with infrastructure appropriate to their position, from what I've seen.

Now, I kinda would like to see fractional docks - say a Type 2.5 - because IMHO a Type 2 is too small for a modern cruiser, and a Type 3 is big enough that it's wasted. But I know that idea's been floated before and was promptly sunk. And for small powers, a "Type 00" slip, smaller than a Type 0 and worth maybe .1 IP, would be useful for building small craft.

But anything of 199 tons or less does not require a slip.

However, the fact that many smaller countries only have 2 factories, the current rule (1 craft smaller than 200t per 3 whole factories per quarter) does NOT allow you to build one EXCEPT on a slip.

This may need discussion.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
But anything of 199 tons or less does not require a slip.

However, the fact that many smaller countries only have 2 factories, the current rule (1 craft smaller than 200t per 3 whole factories per quarter) does NOT allow you to build one EXCEPT on a slip.

This may need discussion.

Ooops.... I´d say the minimum that always can be build is 1. I therefor propose to modify our rules.

Mac - would you please make a proposal for an updated rule text? Your wording might be better than mine..... ;o)

Quoted

Originally posted by alt_naval
Perhaps our infrastructure is wildly over priced. 5IP = 1 6000ton cruiser in 1913.

From these values - yes.

Problem here is we (that´s Pengolodh and me) started with the idea of saying "10 facories per country plus one per capital ship afloat 1911". That - of course - was with the few (!) major powers in mind we thought of back then. The idea WesWorld was born from didn´t ask for balancing that out to extremes, using GDP, population and infrastructure all over the world. Probably a bit short sighted but who could have guessed WesWorld would become such a success and still be alive about six years later! O.o

And thanks for sharing your findings, Roger! It´s worth noting should we start a new round one fine day - based on money probably.

HoOmAn

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Mac - would you please make a proposal for an updated rule text? Your wording might be better than mine..... ;o)

Oh, if I have ever seen a cop-out............Lazy Sod!!

Yeah, will do!!

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green
But anything of 199 tons or less does not require a slip.

However, the fact that many smaller countries only have 2 factories, the current rule (1 craft smaller than 200t per 3 whole factories per quarter) does NOT allow you to build one EXCEPT on a slip.

This may need discussion.

Ooops.... I´d say the minimum that always can be build is 1. I therefor propose to modify our rules.

Mac - would you please make a proposal for an updated rule text? Your wording might be better than mine..... ;o)

Actually, that was precisely what I was wanting to address, albeit in a different way. I had gone through that point for the Irish Aislings (164t), and I elected to build it in a Type 0 since I had that available - but since it applied to the sub-200t rule I used that build time instead of the formula.

Quoted

Originally posted by Commodore Green

Quoted

Originally posted by HoOmAn
Mac - would you please make a proposal for an updated rule text? Your wording might be better than mine..... ;o)

Oh, if I have ever seen a cop-out............Lazy Sod!!

hehehehe

[Thought I first had to check my dic for "cop-out" and "sod".... As the friendly, sensitive and obliging person I am I´m not used to that kind of language!]

Suggest using ALL of the word "dictionary" in the future. Some people might read wrongly what you were consulting.

Proposed rule change concerning small vessels of 200 tons and smaller.

Existing Rule –

Wooden and steel vessels of 200 tons and smaller, 150ft and smaller, can be constructed at a number of

2 crafts smaller than 25t per factory per quarter
or
1 craft smaller than 100t per factory per quarter
or
1 craft smaller than 200t per 3 whole factories per quarter

-------------------

I propose the following change to the above rule –

Wooden and steel vessels of 200 tons and smaller, 150ft and smaller, can be constructed at a number of

2 craft equal to or smaller than 25t per factory per quarter
or
1 craft equal to or smaller than 100t per factory per quarter
or
1 craft equal to or smaller than 200t per 3 whole factories (or part there of) per quarter.

- So a nation with 1 or 2 factories would be able to build any size of vessel that would not require a slip. This would also allow a nation of 4 factories to build 2 x 200 tons per quarter, or a nation with 11 factories to build 6 x 200 ton vessels per quarter.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Suggest using ALL of the word "dictionary" in the future. Some people might read wrongly what you were consulting.

Well, they do say that men have 2 brains!!!!

Proposed rule adjustment: I vote yes.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Suggest using ALL of the word "dictionary" in the future. Some people might read wrongly what you were consulting. :P

Hey! But that word YOU had in mind isn´t written with a "c", is it? ;o)

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Proposed rule adjustment: I vote yes.

Me too!

Quoted

Proposed rule adjustment: I vote yes.

After long thinking: Me too !

Nice.

Rule Adjustment : Aye.

Concept of infrastruture being overpriced- I think the analysis is correct.

Now I presume that WW "drydocks" actually include rather extensive machinery shops, engine works and gearcutting facilities in the civilian world, i.e. all the economic things outside the dock area that allow the shipyard to actually function. This would go far in explaining thier cost. Slips on the other hand, still seem like you you could build one quicker than we allow.

Another solution for small countries might be a bonus type 1 drydock to appear out of thin air. That would allow a great many options.

Define "small countries"?

Hell, I'll go with the flow, I vote Aye as well.

Small as in 4 or 6 factorys? I'd assume the former.

Actually, since 2 had been mentioned as the problem zone, that was my idea, but 4 works as well.
Just an easy way of opening options.