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1

Tuesday, December 30th 2003, 8:42pm

New French ships for 1922

France continues the Audaciaux class destroyers, laying down 6 more in January 1922. Upon completion of these, there will a total of 18. They will be organized into Divisions of 3 destroyers, and 3 Divisions will form a Flotilla.

New designs laid down in 1922 include a Corvette and a Mine Warfare ship. This last has facilities for both sweeping and laying mines.

Finally, the two Suffren class Heavy cruisers, laid down in 1921, will be completed near the end of Q3/1922.

The designs of the new Corvette and the Mine Warfare Ship follow:

French Seine class corvette, laid down 1922

Length, 70.0 m x Beam, 8.2 m x Depth, 2.8 m
648 tonnes normal displacement (607 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 3 x 10.0-cm
AA battery: 4 x 4.0-cm
Light battery: 4 x 1.3-cm

Weight of broadside: 45 kg

4 TT, 53.0 cm in one quad mount
50 tons depth charges

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 2.5 cm shields
AA, 2.5 cm shields

Maximum speed for 11844 shaft kw = 29.00 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 2500 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 64-83


Estimated cost, $808,000 (£202,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.

Cramped ship; poor crew accommodation, limited working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 12 tonnes = 2 pct
Armor, total ..................... 5 tonnes = 1 pct

Armament 5 tonnes = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 308 tonnes = 47 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 210 tonnes = 32 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 63 tonnes = 10 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 50 tonnes = 8 pct
-----
648 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.2 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 585 tonnes
Standard displacement: 607 tonnes
Normal service: 648 tonnes
Full load: 679 tonnes

Loading submergence 313 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.08

Shellfire needed to sink: 91 kg = 6.5 x 10.0-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.30

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.21

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.31
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.11
'Natural speed' for length = 15.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 71 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 176 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 80 percent


Displacement factor: 53 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 144 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 2.71
(for 4.40 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +1.73 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.59

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

229.60 x 26.90 x 9.18; 14.43 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
29.00 / 2500 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
50 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
3 x 3.94; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No secondary battery
4 x 1.57 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
4 x 0.51 -- Fourth (light) battery
4 / 0 / 20.87 -- TT / submerged / size
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.98 / 0.00 / 0.98 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

French mine warship, laid down 1922

Length, 70.0 m x Beam, 8.0 m x Depth, 2.5 m
565 tonnes normal displacement (503 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 3 x 7.5-cm
AA battery: 4 x 4.0-cm
Light battery: 4 x 1.3-cm

Weight of broadside: 21 kg

50 tons minesweeping equipment
100 tons mines and minelaying equipment

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 2.5 cm shields
AA, 2.5 cm shields

Maximum speed for 4600 shaft kw = 23.75 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 4000 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 58-75


Estimated cost, $534,000 (£134,000)

Remarks:

Caution: Hull structure is subject to strain in open-sea
conditions.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Magazines and engineering spaces are cramped, with poor
watertight subdivision.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 6 tonnes = 1 pct
Armor, total ..................... 4 tonnes = 1 pct

Armament 4 tonnes = 1 pct

Machinery ........................ 193 tonnes = 34 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 136 tonnes = 24 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 77 tonnes = 14 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 150 tonnes = 27 pct
-----
565 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.3 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 488 tonnes
Standard displacement: 503 tonnes
Normal service: 565 tonnes
Full load: 612 tonnes

Loading submergence 306 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.17

Shellfire needed to sink: 97 kg = 16.5 x 7.5-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.2
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 50 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.09

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.26

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.31
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.49
'Natural speed' for length = 15.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 61 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 147 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 113 percent


Displacement factor: 91 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.50
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 109 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.30
(for 3.20 m average freeboard;
freeboard adjustment +0.60 m)

Relative composite hull strength: 0.55

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

229.60 x 26.24 x 8.20; 10.50 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
23.75 / 4000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
150 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
3 x 2.95; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No secondary battery
4 x 1.57 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
4 x 0.51 -- Fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.98 / 0.00 / 0.98 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

harry the red

Unregistered

2

Monday, January 12th 2004, 4:05am

Doctor Who’s Tardus?

I do like most of your designs but I have problems with the mine warfare ship.

First off I don’t believe you can fit 3 X 75mm guns, mine sweeping equipment and 100 tons of mines on a 70m X 8m platform while still having space for the deckhouses, air ventilation, lifeboats derricks a funnel and AA armament. You would need about 67 sq/m of deck space just for the mines, a minimum of 108 sq/m for the 3 X 75mm guns and about 64 sq/m for the minesweeping equipment making a total of 239 sq/m. In other words about 50 % of your deck space.

This may seem not that much, but don’t forget the other deck furniture mentioned above.

The second problem I have is that you used the fast ship composite hull strength rule for a ship capable of only 23.75 Knots Personally I think that the minimum cut of point for this rule should not be any lower then 28 knots.

What I recommend is that you drop the mine clearing equipment and at least one of the 75mm guns or you remove and replace all of the 75mm guns with a single 57mm keeping the mine clearing equipment and the mine laying capacity as is

Well that’s just my opinion. The others might disagree :-)

Harry

3

Monday, January 12th 2004, 12:37pm

I agree with Red Harry here. For slow ship we need to apply 100% composite strength.

4

Wednesday, January 14th 2004, 10:32am

Mine warfare ship

How about a single 75mm, one dual 40mm, and a couple machine guns?

French Mine Warfare Ship, laid down 1922

Length, 70.0 m x Beam, 8.0 m x Depth, 2.6 m
589 tonnes normal displacement (496 tonnes standard)

Main battery: 1 x 7.5-cm
AA battery: 2 x 4.0-cm
Light battery: 2 x 1.3-cm

Weight of broadside: 8 kg

50 tons minesweeping equipment
100 tons mines

Hull unarmored

Battery armor:
Main, 2.5 cm shields
AA, 2.5 cm shields

Maximum speed for 2585 shaft kw = 20.50 knots
Approximate cruising radius, 6000 nm / 12 knots

Typical complement: 60-78


Estimated cost, $383,000 (£96,000)

Remarks:

Ship has slow, easy roll; a good, steady gun platform.

Good seaboat; rides out heavy weather easily.

Cramped ship; poor crew accommodation, limited working space.


Distribution of weights:
Percent
normal
displacement:

Armament ......................... 2 tonnes = 0 pct
Armor, total ..................... 1 tonnes = 0 pct

Armament 1 tonnes = 0 pct

Machinery ........................ 118 tonnes = 20 pct
Hull and fittings; equipment ..... 212 tonnes = 36 pct
Fuel, ammunition, stores ......... 106 tonnes = 18 pct
Miscellaneous weights ............ 150 tonnes = 25 pct
-----
589 tonnes = 100 pct

Estimated metacentric height, 0.2 m

Displacement summary:

Light ship: 483 tonnes
Standard displacement: 496 tonnes
Normal service: 589 tonnes
Full load: 661 tonnes

Loading submergence 303 tonnes/metre

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:

Relative margin of stability: 1.01

Shellfire needed to sink: 331 kg = 56.5 x 7.5-cm shells
(Approximates weight of penetrating
shell hits needed to sink ship,
not counting critical hits)

Torpedoes needed to sink: 0.5
(Approximates number of 'typical'
torpedo hits needed to sink ship)

Relative steadiness as gun platform, 70 percent
(50 percent is 'average')

Relative rocking effect from firing to beam, 0.04

Relative quality as a seaboat: 1.21

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hull form characteristics:

Block coefficient: 0.40
Sharpness coefficient: 0.31
Hull speed coefficient 'M' = 8.37
'Natural speed' for length = 15.2 knots
Power going to wave formation
at top speed: 53 percent


Estimated hull characteristics and strength:

Relative underwater volume absorbed by
magazines and engineering spaces: 96 percent

Relative accommodation and working space: 89 percent


Displacement factor: 146 percent
(Displacement relative to loading factors)


Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0.95
(Structure weight per square
metre of hull surface: 179 kg)

Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.71
(for 2.62 m average freeboard)

Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


[Machine-readable parameters: Spring Style v. 1.2.1]

229.60 x 26.24 x 8.66; 8.60 -- Dimensions
0.40 -- Block coefficient
1922 -- Year laid down
20.50 / 6000 / 12.00; Oil-fired turbine or equivalent -- Speed / radius / cruise
150 tons -- Miscellaneous weights
++++++++++
1 x 2.95; 0 -- Main battery; turrets
Central positioning of guns
Gun-shields
:
0 -- No secondary battery
2 x 1.57 -- Tertiary (QF/AA) battery
Gun-shields
:
2 x 0.51 -- Fourth (light) battery
0 -- No torpedo armament
++++++++++
0.00 -- No belt armor
0.00 / 0.00 -- Deck / CT
0.98 / 0.00 / 0.98 / 0.00 -- Battery armor


(Note: For portability, values are stored in Anglo-American units)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

5

Wednesday, January 14th 2004, 12:27pm

yep! nice easily and quickly built design.