WesWorld

Mac, I'm wondering what your interpretation of this part of the treaty is.

Quoted

VIII.

Notwithstanding the above clauses, the Kingdom of Greece and the Kingdom of Iberia shall be allowed to retain cruisers in commission or building armed with guns of a size up to 7 inches (178 millimetres) without being obliged to charge these guns against the maximum tonnage allowed Greece and Iberia of cruisers of sub-category (a). This exception shall be valid for, and only for, the purpose of determining which ships may be retained upon the coming into effect of the treaty.

This exception shall not be valid for determining whether Greece or Iberia may lay down further cruisers of sub-category (a) - for the determination of which cruisers, if any, Greece or Iberia may lay down, and when Greece or Iberia may lay down these cruisers, Greece and Iberia shall be obliged to apply the same principles as the other Contracting Powers.

Looking at the Iberian CL list I see the following designs that fall under this clause

1905
El Cunctador
El Pajero
El Cobarde
El Temeroso
2 - 6.69"

1909
Santa Juana
Santa Katharina
San Bernardo
San José
San Fernando

4 - 6.70"

1912
Adelante
Avance
Progreso
4 - 6.70"

1914
Angola
El Salvador
Liberia
Honduras
Diego Garcia
Nicaragua
7 - 6.70"

1917
Santiago de Cuba
Luanda
Macao
Santander
7 - 6.69"

It was my understanding that many of these ships were to be eventually replaced with ships armed with type B armaments.

Atlantis had its own similar designs in the Medusa and Pioneer class CL's, orriginally armed with 7.5" guns. Atlantis did not persue inclution into this clause thusly these ships fell under the CA heading and were subsequently refited to fit the CL rating.

I take it to mean that Iberia can retain it's larger than treaty standard armament on it's older CLs, but any new (post entry to treaty) must be compliant (which they are), but we are not forced to refit.

Sorry Wes, nothing was ever said during the hand-over from L.A.

The first 4 classses mentioned are being replaced starting Q1 1934, so it will all sort itself out fairly soon anyway.

The Santiago De Cuba's will be getting a refit (if it's economical!)

What really surprizes me is you haven't tried to sell the Angola's. I don't recall their speed but they have a decent, if not odd sized armament.

*looks at Iberia's CL entry's again* Then again 27 knots is slow!

That certainly could help pay for the refits of the Santiago de Cuba's.

I'd interpreted the rule the same as CG but I was ready to reclassify the ships as 'Coast Defense' as they qualified. Could you yank a boiler room and drop the speed or even argue that 20 year old machinery can only make 24 knots?

I'd ended up replacing these ships (Perecles Class) as they were over age.

Cheers,

I'd have to check but IIRC we assumed that work to reduce speed (via mutilation) would require less materials? Reguardless I think Iberia used up all their CDS tonnage anyway, if my memory serves me correctly.

Quoted

Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
I'd have to check but IIRC we assumed that work to reduce speed (via mutilation) would require less materials? Reguardless I think Iberia used up all their CDS tonnage anyway, if my memory serves me correctly.

Correct, the 5 "Trade Wind" class CEs
Have a gold star!!

Great! I'm not getting old yet!

...but senility and age are not mutually inclusive

....who are you again???

what Mac said. we included that as a grandfather rule for my old CLs when I first joined the sim.