WesWorld

Greetings all,

Sorry for the delay on the 1930 stuff, I needed to address the Zeven Provincen reconstruction issues (reconstruction type, gun sizes, deck armors) before I could proceed. The best ZP on the 50% I was able to come up with has 345mm with somewhat weak decks and would require retention another 10 years. So no reconstruction right now.

Well I was preparing my Q1, 1930 report and I realized I still had some unanswered questions, and I had not previewed the new 1930 designs.

Question #1 : Would there be a reasonable legal means of designing a ship so that installation of torpedoes would be a 5% refit, not a 15%? I ask because on the sloop design below, the basic deckplan is from a destroyer, substituting 40mm AA for the torpedoes. I don’t see why replacing those, if planned for, would take 15% of build time. Just the +9*15% months part of the build equation would be 40 days, regardless of overall displacement. Can I specify misc. weight or something to get around this?

Question #2 : How easy would be hiding submerged tubes behind false hull. Or enclosing a torpedo carriage with a false superstructure that could be cut away and loaded? How would one best account for those weights?

So, there are 6 ships. I tried to arrange them in order of possible interest, so one could skip the refits. I’m still not sure how much proofing is considered polite.

1st is the escort sloop- similar to what RA provided. A 20knot, 10,000@15 version is another possibility. A thirds option would be a different hull, but 4x125mm.

2ndis a Coast Guard corvette. Given the recent Philippines conflict, I imagine smuggling would have become a problem in the Borneo region. A heavier gunboat will eventually follow.

3rd is a new wooden minesweeping vessel.

4th is a service life refit of the F1 class. New weaponry, same old ship.

5th is a service life extension of the Java CL. Replace the 130mm deck mounts with 152mm, the 100mm& 75mm with 40mm tubs, the 40mm revolvers with 20mm AA.

6th, and last, is the Gronigen service life extension refit. Extensive alteration to the shipped weapons, relining the 320mm to 280mm, replacing casemented weapons, adding light AA guns. All should qualify under the service-life ext level refit.

Let me know if there is anything egregious.
===========================================
the bars seperate vessels
============================================
Ship 1 : Escort Sloop.

S19, Netherlands Sloop laid down 1930

Displacement:
995 t light; 1,047 t standard; 1,259 t normal; 1,429 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
329.95 ft / 314.96 ft x 32.81 ft x 8.53 ft (normal load)
100.57 m / 96.00 m x 10.00 m x 2.60 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1930 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 147 lbs / 66 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 8,353 shp / 6,231 Kw = 24.00 kts
Range 10,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 382 tons

Complement:
105 - 137

Cost:
£0.358 million / $1.433 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 1.5 %
Armour: 8 tons, 0.6 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 6 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 253 tons, 20.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 650 tons, 51.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 265 tons, 21.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 65 tons, 5.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
2,383 lbs / 1,081 Kg = 78.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.3 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.16
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.41

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.60 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.32 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 23.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.85 ft / 6.05 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.39 ft / 5.30 m (11.81 ft / 3.60 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Stern: 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
- Average freeboard: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 153.4 %
Waterplane Area: 7,160 Square feet or 665 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 173 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 54 lbs/sq ft or 265 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.11
- Longitudinal: 2.59
- Overall: 1.21
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Based on the RN Isis class converted to metric, -2m length.

4.7" replaced with 100mm
AA behind 1st funnel replaced with 2x twin 40mm.
Original vessel carried 10x21" TT, these are replaced with quad 40mm mounts.
The single 20mms and 13.2mms are dispersed.

Miscellaneous weight is currently 30 tons for DCs, 20 tons for non-existant torpedoes, 15 tons for growth. Comp hull without the extra 35 tons = 1.27.

===========================================
===========================================

Putten, Netherlands KNK Patrol Corvette laid down 1930

Displacement:
74 t light; 77 t standard; 81 t normal; 84 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
81.94 ft / 75.46 ft x 15.09 ft x 4.10 ft (normal load)
24.97 m / 23.00 m x 4.60 m x 1.25 m

Armament:
1 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline forward
1 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose gun in deck mount
on centreline aft, 1 raised gun
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 15 lbs / 7 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 0.51" / 13 mm 49.21 ft / 15.00 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0.24" / 6 mm, Conning tower: 0.59" / 15 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 254 shp / 189 Kw = 13.00 kts
Range 2,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7 tons

Complement:
13 - 17

Cost:
£0.022 million / $0.088 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 17 tons, 20.4 %
- Belts: 11 tons, 13.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 1 tons, 1.6 %
- Armour Deck: 4 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 8 tons, 9.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 33 tons, 40.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 7 tons, 8.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 15 tons, 18.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
174 lbs / 79 Kg = 13.5 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.00
Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 11.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.607
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 10.41 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m (6.56 ft / 2.00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Stern: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
- Average freeboard: 7.22 ft / 2.20 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.0 %
Waterplane Area: 874 Square feet or 81 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 131 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 98 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 12.33
- Overall: 1.09
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

===========================================
===========================================


CMS, Netherlands Wood Coastal Minesweeper laid down 1930

Displacement:
199 t light; 217 t standard; 230 t normal; 240 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
136.56 ft / 127.95 ft x 19.69 ft x 4.92 ft (normal load)
41.62 m / 39.00 m x 6.00 m x 1.50 m

Armament:
3 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 114 lbs / 52 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 702 ihp / 523 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 23 tons

Complement:
29 - 38

Cost:
£0.103 million / $0.411 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 14 tons, 6.2 %
Machinery: 40 tons, 17.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 115 tons, 49.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 31 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 13.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
242 lbs / 110 Kg = 7.9 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 11.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.649
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.14 ft / 3.70 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Stern: 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 9.07 ft / 2.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 104.0 %
Waterplane Area: 2,011 Square feet or 187 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 158 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 7.70
- Overall: 1.14
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Wooden coastal minesweeper

100mm guns are in A,B and Y, with B&Y superimposed. Y overlooks the aft mine deck.

===========================================
===========================================

FF1, Dutch Frigate laid down 1911

Displacement:
571 t light; 590 t standard; 678 t normal; 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
229.66 ft / 229.66 ft x 26.25 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
70.00 m / 70.00 m x 8.00 m x 3.00 m

Armament:
3 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
Weight of broadside 43 lbs / 19 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11,917 shp / 8,890 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 159 tons

Complement:
66 - 86

Cost:
£0.069 million / $0.275 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 316 tons, 46.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 150 tons, 22.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 107 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 14.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
175 lbs / 79 Kg = 13.6 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.67 ft / 5.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Stern: 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Average freeboard: 11.08 ft / 3.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.5 %
Waterplane Area: 3,710 Square feet or 345 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 20 lbs/sq ft or 100 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.44
- Longitudinal: 2.03
- Overall: 0.51
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

===========================================
===========================================

Java, Holland Light Cruiser laid down 1913

Displacement:
5,265 t light; 5,447 t standard; 6,284 t normal; 6,954 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
435.54 ft / 426.51 ft x 50.03 ft x 20.01 ft (normal load)
132.75 m / 130.00 m x 15.25 m x 6.10 m

Armament:
7 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1925 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.94lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
6 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1913 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1913 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 820 lbs / 372 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 119
7 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.99" / 76 mm 351.12 ft / 107.02 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: 1.26" / 32 mm 75.39 ft / 22.98 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Main Belt covers 127 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 58,273 shp / 43,472 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,507 tons

Complement:
352 - 458

Cost:
£0.641 million / $2.565 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 100 tons, 1.6 %
Armour: 844 tons, 13.4 %
- Belts: 545 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 29 tons, 0.5 %
- Armour Deck: 262 tons, 4.2 %
- Conning Tower: 7 tons, 0.1 %
Machinery: 2,283 tons, 36.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,038 tons, 32.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,019 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,898 lbs / 2,222 Kg = 45.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.19
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.515
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 6.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.46 ft / 7.15 m
- Forecastle (18 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m
- Mid (50 %): 23.46 ft / 7.15 m (15.45 ft / 4.71 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (18 %): 15.45 ft / 4.71 m
- Stern: 15.45 ft / 4.71 m
- Average freeboard: 19.46 ft / 5.93 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 129.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 117.5 %
Waterplane Area: 14,415 Square feet or 1,339 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 376 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.89
- Longitudinal: 2.71
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

===========================================
===========================================

Groningen, Netherlands Coastal Battleship laid down 1914

Displacement:
7,649 t light; 8,223 t standard; 9,453 t normal; 10,437 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
470.04 ft / 459.32 ft x 62.34 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
143.27 m / 140.00 m x 19.00 m x 6.00 m

Armament:
4 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (2x2 guns), 793.66lbs / 360.00kg shells, 1903 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 110.23lbs / 50.00kg shells, 1926 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1929 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1914 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 4,367 lbs / 1,981 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 8.66" / 220 mm 221.46 ft / 67.50 m 11.81 ft / 3.60 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 5.91" / 150 mm 221.46 ft / 67.50 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 74 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 11.0" / 280 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm - -
3rd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
4th: 0.59" / 15 mm - -

- Armour deck: 0.98" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 21,810 shp / 16,270 Kw = 22.00 kts
Range 18,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,214 tons

Complement:
479 - 623

Cost:
£1.004 million / $4.018 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 481 tons, 5.1 %
Armour: 2,407 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 1,522 tons, 16.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 471 tons, 5.0 %
- Armour Deck: 377 tons, 4.0 %
- Conning Tower: 38 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 840 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,920 tons, 41.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,804 tons, 19.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
14,522 lbs / 6,587 Kg = 21.7 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 3.5 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 14.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.67
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.587
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.37 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.43 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.59 ft / 7.19 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.95 ft / 6.08 m (14.99 ft / 4.57 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 14.99 ft / 4.57 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.99 ft / 4.57 m
- Stern: 14.99 ft / 4.57 m
- Average freeboard: 16.28 ft / 4.96 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 69.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.5 %
Waterplane Area: 20,688 Square feet or 1,922 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.07
- Longitudinal: 1.96
- Overall: 1.14
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

The 320mm guns are (have been) a treaty violation and will be lined down to 280mm. This will shoot both the old 303kg and a new 360kg shell.

The casement 100mms will be replaced with 152mm casemented weapons and new gunshields fitted.

A large number of light AA weapons are fitted.

It is presumed that the design has always had deck armor only over the citadel. Which would be 38mm

Reversion to the 320mm true gun size, with 360kg shells, gives a post-refit comp hull of 1.04.

Quoted

Question #2 : How easy would be hiding submerged tubes behind false hull. Or enclosing a torpedo carriage with a false superstructure that could be cut away and loaded? How would one best account for those weights?

I think it would be easier to hide the TTs in a false (wooden) superstructure than behind a false hull. Make it simple and collapsable so it is easy to throw it down at sea in order to use them as well as raise it once that is done. I'm not sure how much miscellaneous weight I would assign to such a system, but I doubt it will be much.
Regarding the FF1...

Quoted

- Cross-sectional: 0.44

... which we try to keep above 0.5.

Coastal minesweeper - why does she need 3x100mm guns? Maybe keep the 57mm guns but the 100s are completely redundant for her role and take up much deck space.

Frigate - 75mm guns are too small for use against surface vessels larger than MTBs.

Dummy superstructure : The closest to break-away superstructure I had thought was the possibility of a steel superstructure element enclosing the torpedo carriage in peacetime, and supporting a 40mm tub above. The director could be enclosed with the searchlight platform between the sets of tubes. Come wartime you break out the welding torches and cut out the appropriate side panels, tie up with a tender and load the torpedoes and technicians.

F1 cross-sectional : That's a flaw in RAM's initial design that I hadn't noticed previously.

Should I let it ride, or go back and redesign RAM's original vessel and refit that ?

The 75mms are the original gun size, just a modern DP mount. I think RAM meant these as ASW assets and the guns are meant for anti-sub and MTB work. Originally I was going to scrap them, but they will take to long to replace unless I build a huge block of escorts. So I'll refit them and replace them slowly.

Coastal Minesweeper : Good point, with a 39m boat, 3x100mm would realistically eat up a bunch of space, even if SS calls it “adequate”.

A pair of guns forward might be better. The question is could a pair of 100mm work, or should I downgun to a pair of 75mm? Or maybe a lone 125mm...

As for the why- I'm trying to get the most dual role utility when I can. Minesweeping would be primary, but a secondary auxilary escort role is possible. There should be extensive intra-island commerce which would be subject to MTB and long-range bomber interdiction. 125/100 mm has more punch and reach than a 75mm, so they are preferred.

Edit: Here's the revamped vessels.
==========================================
Ram's F1, refitted. Cross sectional difficulty 'fixed' by removing 25 tons ASW equipment (of 100) that was "straining the hull " and was not original equip.

triple 75mm reduced to twin 100mm.

FF1 (r), Dutch Frigate laid down 1911

Displacement:
568 t light; 590 t standard; 678 t normal; 749 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
229.66 ft / 229.66 ft x 26.25 ft x 9.84 ft (normal load)
70.00 m / 70.00 m x 8.00 m x 3.00 m

Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1926 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1928 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 66 lbs / 30 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 11,917 shp / 8,890 Kw = 27.00 kts
Range 5,500nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 159 tons

Complement:
66 - 86

Cost:
£0.071 million / $0.285 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8 tons, 1.2 %
Machinery: 318 tons, 46.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 173 tons, 25.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 110 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 70 tons, 10.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
205 lbs / 93 Kg = 6.7 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 10.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.75 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 15.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.67 ft / 5.08 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Mid (50 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Stern: 10.60 ft / 3.23 m
- Average freeboard: 11.08 ft / 3.38 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113.5 %
Waterplane Area: 3,710 Square feet or 345 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 24 lbs/sq ft or 115 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.34
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

==================================
revamped coastal MS
==================================
CMS, Netherlands Wood Coastal Minesweeper laid down 1930

Displacement:
191 t light; 202 t standard; 215 t normal; 224 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
136.56 ft / 127.95 ft x 19.69 ft x 4.59 ft (normal load)
41.62 m / 39.00 m x 6.00 m x 1.40 m

Armament:
2 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1928 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns in single mounts, 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1922 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
4 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 49 lbs / 22 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
Geared drive, 1 shaft, 676 ihp / 504 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 22 tons

Complement:
27 - 36

Cost:
£0.072 million / $0.287 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6 tons, 2.8 %
Machinery: 38 tons, 17.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 107 tons, 49.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 23 tons, 10.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 18.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
327 lbs / 148 Kg = 25.4 x 3.0 " / 75 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.1 m
Roll period: 12.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.54

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.649
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 13.16 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 18.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.14 ft / 3.70 m (7.87 ft / 2.40 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Stern: 7.87 ft / 2.40 m
- Average freeboard: 9.07 ft / 2.76 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 111.7 %
Waterplane Area: 2,011 Square feet or 187 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 7.59
- Overall: 1.25
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Wooden coastal minesweeper


2x 75mm....rather have 2x100mm..thoughts?