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Originally posted by Brockpaine
Question for those of you owning and building carriers. What's the ideal mix of planes you look for in an air group? Half the capacity in fighters? Equal number of interceptors, dive bombers, and torpedo planes? Does the ratio vary according to the size of the carrier, or how many carriers your navy can operate?
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I still don´t understand why there are so many carriers build in WesWorld - especially by nations that can hardly afford any large navy anyway and thus put all their money on a yet unproven concept.
The South American war failed to prove a carrier is a formidable strike platform. You may attack anchored targets with success but so can you with land based planes. At sea no carrier has proven to be superior to even an old and mediocre capital ship. Heck, there have been reports those carrier planes could not even sink merchants and had to call for a cruiser doing the job.
In maneuvers carriers may have shown some potential but the only life fire test with sustained carrier operations, the ultimate test, they failed as it seems. So I think realistically any nation that muses about putting most of its money into one single large design should and would focus on any kind of capital ship or at least super-cruiser, not a carrier. But this is not the case obviously....
So please all of you who design and build (large) carriers:
What´s the reason nations rate the carrier so high? Especially those with no (WW) history in developing carrier based aviation but an interest to buy relatively large (15ooots and more) vessels? There is not much testing with small or converted ships. No, you obviously aim for the big ones. But why (other than hindsight of course)?
Just curious,
HoOmAn
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "howard" (Nov 2nd 2008, 2:05am)
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
You cant disregard hindsight, especially since most of us are most familiar with World war 2.
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
Despite the failure of hevy bombers and medium tanks in the SA war, everyone (more or less) is getting them. Personally I am not basing any decision on the SA war since nothing can be learnt from a scripted war that was decided before it started
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
...since nothing can be learnt from a scripted war that was decided before it started
Uhhh...
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vukovlad" (Nov 1st 2008, 11:46pm)
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
You cant disregard hindsight, especially since most of us are most familiar with World war 2.
You can't apply what you haven't learned, hindsight is irrelivent, at least to those of us who wish to apply realism to the sim, those who don't are simply powergaming and thus ruining things for the bulk of everyone else.
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
Despite the failure of hevy bombers and medium tanks in the SA war, everyone (more or less) is getting them. Personally I am not basing any decision on the SA war since nothing can be learnt from a scripted war that was decided before it started
Now your just being silly.
First and foremost the lessons of the South American war will take some time to sink in, untill then nations will saunder along unaware of its lessons to be learned.
Secondly I can tell you that dispite the war being scripted its outcome was always fluid and unpredictable. Its outcome is still based on individual events scripted and the players involved (actively that is) have somewhat modified their beliefs in some area's with reguards to the outcome.
Now the question is why do nations like Peru and Persia require CV's, even for scouting when land based aircraft can do the job just as well? The answer is simple, these nations wish to project power which in the opinion of most is dubious and futile as larger nations can squash them like a bug.
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Originally posted by Vukovlad
Persia was already in SATSUMA when I started as for the treaties Hood for some reason wishes to uphold diplomatic part of the SIM rather than the path chosen by the Super Powers of WW "do as I say or we will kill you" (see Lithuanina and Caucusus crises)
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Anyway, refering to the orriginal topic Atlantis operates three carriers at present with 2 more acting as training carriers. Typically Atlantis has its airgroups split roughly 50/50 between fighters and attack aircraft, with torpedo bombers representing the majority of the attack types.
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Alioth aircraft compliment: Max 55, typically 24 fighters, 12 bombers, 19 scout-torpedo bombers
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Arrogant class aircraft compliment: Max 84, peacetime operational 72, typically 42 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
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The training CV Nautica was designed to be able to be refitted to act as a trade protection CV and carry a similar number of aircraft as the Alioth, whom she resembles size wise. Alioth on the other hand has proven that size does matter with fleet carriers and eventually will act as an escort for the fleet carriers trading some of her attack aircraft for more fighters.
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The current Atlantean naval plans call for 4-6 new fleet CV's and several trade protection CVL's.
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Arcturus class aircraft compliment: Max 75, typically 30 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Anyway, refering to the orriginal topic Atlantis operates three carriers at present with 2 more acting as training carriers. Typically Atlantis has its airgroups split roughly 50/50 between fighters and attack aircraft, with torpedo bombers representing the majority of the attack types.
This is not logical, your best torpedo plane the ANAF TBN-8 still isn't good enough to justify these large torpedo plane strike complements. 819 miles? Cut that into fourths......200 miles? And what torpedo are you using? If you are using a Devastator clone that has got to be a Mark XV clone as your tech limit.........
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Alioth aircraft compliment: Max 55, typically 24 fighters, 12 bombers, 19 scout-torpedo bombers
trade war and fleet defense.
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Arrogant class aircraft compliment: Max 84, peacetime operational 72, typically 42 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
fleet attack type.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassinThe training CV Nautica was designed to be able to be refitted to act as a trade protection CV and carry a similar number of aircraft as the Alioth, whom she resembles size wise. Alioth on the other hand has proven that size does matter with fleet carriers and eventually will act as an escort for the fleet carriers trading some of her attack aircraft for more fighters.
Something like a Chiyoda. I will not comment on this since that is not a lesson learned yet.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
The current Atlantean naval plans call for 4-6 new fleet CV's and several trade protection CVL's.
You might want to seriously rethink that build program.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Arcturus class aircraft compliment: Max 75, typically 30 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
Soryu or Hiryu clone. KABOOM!
H.
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Anyway, refering to the orriginal topic Atlantis operates three carriers at present with 2 more acting as training carriers. Typically Atlantis has its airgroups split roughly 50/50 between fighters and attack aircraft, with torpedo bombers representing the majority of the attack types.
This is not logical, your best torpedo plane the ANAF TBN-8 still isn't good enough to justify these large torpedo plane strike complements. 819 miles? Cut that into fourths......200 miles? And what torpedo are you using? If you are using a Devastator clone that has got to be a Mark XV clone as your tech limit.........
Initial Torpedo bombers shipped, the TBN-6 Sea darts, acted as scouts. Currently the Banshee's fulfill that role given their longer range. It is interesting that you note the range issue. Something that is currently an issue with Atlantean naval aircraft.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Alioth aircraft compliment: Max 55, typically 24 fighters, 12 bombers, 19 scout-torpedo bombers
trade war and fleet defense.
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Arrogant class aircraft compliment: Max 84, peacetime operational 72, typically 42 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
fleet attack type.
Correct.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassinThe training CV Nautica was designed to be able to be refitted to act as a trade protection CV and carry a similar number of aircraft as the Alioth, whom she resembles size wise. Alioth on the other hand has proven that size does matter with fleet carriers and eventually will act as an escort for the fleet carriers trading some of her attack aircraft for more fighters.
Something like a Chiyoda. I will not comment on this since that is not a lesson learned yet.
Somewhat. You could argue that she's a shadow carrier but the original idea was to provide a training CV that could be converted in an emergency. Not an ideal provision but
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
The current Atlantean naval plans call for 4-6 new fleet CV's and several trade protection CVL's.
You might want to seriously rethink that build program.
Why? Not meglomanical enough? The key word here is "current", plans can change when needed.
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Originally posted by howard
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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
Arcturus class aircraft compliment: Max 75, typically 30 fighters, 18 bombers, 24 scout-torpedo bombers
Soryu or Hiryu clone. KABOOM!
H.
The historical Soryu's were 7,000 tons lighter. Yorktown is a more applicable comparison.
This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "howard" (Nov 2nd 2008, 10:35am)
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