WesWorld

Because some of my ships are getting old, it's time for a modernisation:

In the next 2 years my two CA's of the Jakumo-Class (HICMS Kasuga & HICMS Iwao) will be modernized.

I thought on replacing the single 200mm and the casemate 130mm guns with an adequate number of medium secondary (125mm or more).
Also they will get some additional Anti-Air weaponary. Also of course the engines will be changed to get a higher speed.

So here is my suggestion (50% refit):

Kasuga, China Armored Cruiser laid down 1914 (Engine 1939)

Displacement:
11,573 t light; 12,128 t standard; 13,808 t normal; 15,152 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
551.18 ft / 551.18 ft x 70.14 ft x 25.00 ft (normal load)
168.00 m / 168.00 m x 21.38 m x 7.62 m

Armament:
4 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns (2x2 guns), 244.10lbs / 110.72kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (6x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.41kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
8 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
32 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 3.81lbs / 1.73kg shells, 1939 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
40 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (10x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1914 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,204 lbs / 1,000 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.99" / 203 mm 324.97 ft / 99.05 m 10.10 ft / 3.08 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 4.02" / 102 mm 324.97 ft / 99.05 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.57" / 40 mm 324.97 ft / 99.05 m 21.98 ft / 6.70 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.99" / 203 mm 4.02" / 102 mm 5.98" / 152 mm
2nd: 2.99" / 76 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 2.36" / 60 mm
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -
4th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
5th: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.52" / 64 mm, Conning tower: 12.01" / 305 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
No drive to shaft, 3 shafts, 73,636 shp / 54,933 Kw = 29.00 kts
Range 14,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,023 tons

Complement:
636 - 827

Cost:
£1.165 million / $4.661 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 276 tons, 2.0 %
Armour: 3,743 tons, 27.1 %
- Belts: 1,591 tons, 11.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 416 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 386 tons, 2.8 %
- Armour Deck: 1,201 tons, 8.7 %
- Conning Tower: 149 tons, 1.1 %
Machinery: 1,992 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,442 tons, 39.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,235 tons, 16.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
22,044 lbs / 9,999 Kg = 90.3 x 7.9 " / 200 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.1 m
Roll period: 15.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.86 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23.48 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Mid (70 %): 19.00 ft / 5.79 m (12.99 ft / 3.96 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 12.99 ft / 3.96 m
- Stern: 12.99 ft / 3.96 m
- Average freeboard: 17.19 ft / 5.24 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 90.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 116.9 %
Waterplane Area: 25,760 Square feet or 2,393 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 680 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.19
- Longitudinal: 1.81
- Overall: 1.24
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[SIZE=1]Thanks for perdedor for the help[/SIZE]

Comments are welcome !

Just noticed no drive to shaft. Need that geared shaft.

You have so much tonnage left there....why don't you increase the speed to 30 or 31 knots?

Otherwise, heavily armoured, under armed, probebly not worth rebuilding when you can get a brand new heavy cruiser for the cost of both of these.

Tex actually has a good point, IMHO. You're spending ~5786.5 tons to get a 29-knot, 4x8" cruiser. Protection is excellent - a TDS, even - but it's the gunnery suite that kills it, IMHO.

I'd remove the turrets, scrap the ships, and build an 8x8" CA with the reused main turrets. Then stick the casemate guns in shore batteries.

I'd leave the main armament as is (3x2) and remove the casemates, replacing them with 130mm DP's and forget about the 105's and heavy TT's. What was her orriginal speed?

*does a search*

Yeah, I wouldn't even bother with a 1 knot increase in speed, 2-3 knots maybe but 1 knot really isn't worth it IMO.

28 knots. Though the original armament actually looks to be 8x8" - two twin turrets, and four single casemate guns.

Hmmm single guns, I'd likely keep them if I was China but if Parador wants to get the design up to 30 knots or so removing them might make sence.

At 29 knots, the seaboat quality is already at 1.00 and making the ship a few knots faster will mean it will drop well below that. Main gun layout is like the old Scharnhorst cruisers.

Yeah, that's another reason I don't feel they're worth it.

If you want to keep em, give them a fire-control refit and some QF guns, and use them as fast coast-defense ships. I'd get rid of them, myself.

Yikes, seaboat quality really IS poor. Kinda feel what Brock says is about right. Keep the main guns as is, remove the casemates and give them reasonable AA capabilitys and keep em on the coastline.

You could acctually reduce their speed and use em as convoy escorts but I fear they will have a short life in that role in a war.

He has 1.24 composite strength. if he's already doing a 50% job, he can add freeboard and speed.

"14,000 nm at 14 knots"

This is China. Can that ship do anything in a ocean war?

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
He has 1.24 composite strength. if he's already doing a 50% job, he can add freeboard and speed.

Adding freeboard has the potential, well... likelihood... okay, near certainty of decreasing seakeeping, as it would severely alter the stability of the ship (in the negative). Further, the barbettes and armoured deck would have to be raised to accommodate the change in freeboard, which would raise the center of gravity. And the superstructure would need to be razed and completely rebuilt, which would raise the center of gravity.

75% job at least. And by the time you get done, you'll likely have a worse ship than what you started with.

Ah...you see, I'm not really that aware. I'm guess freeboard can only be raised effectivly on ships that don't have barbettes?

That still is a lot of extra hull strength.

Freeboard can be raised on any ship. But there are always costs involved. Imagine that you drive a van, and you decide to make it a double-decker by adding another level up top. Now imagine driving that on a windy day on a curvy mountain road. That, in short, is similar to what adding freeboard does to a ship. Additionally, any particular part of the hull is designed to carry the load of X tons of steel above it, and if you suddenly add another 5-6' of deck, it's going to place more weight on that section.

Springsharp lets you get away with it because it doesn't take such things into consideration (aside from counting freeboard against stability). That doesn't make it a good option.

Like I said I think a better option IMO would be to reduce speed which would improve seakeeping and stability and allow the addition of new DP and AA weapons.

I would scrap them and try to get my hands on something more modern that can be kept in service for another decade without further investments short of the price of buying it.

For example, put those on the market. They're better than the other ships you have on the market. Build a updated Zunyi with the proceeds, plus some extra.

Even scrapping would give you tonnage towards a 3rd Zunyi which IMO is a better investment.

Or, even better yet, you can spend the scrapping funds plus funds you saved on building a bunch of those destroyers you need.

Because a rebuilt of the Kasuga and Iwaki is waste of material, China thought on building an advanced Zunyi-Class
and re-using the turrets:

2x2 200mm turret built 1914 from Kasuga
2x2 200mm turret built 1914 from Iwaki

12x 50mm AA guns built 1914 from Kasuga
12x 50mm AA guns built 1914 from Iwaki



Advanced Zunyi, China Heavy Cruiser laid down 1939


Displacement:
11.335 t light; 11.884 t standard; 13.055 t normal; 13.992 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
572,17 ft / 557,74 ft x 56,43 ft x 24,61 ft (normal load)
174,40 m / 170,00 m x 17,20 m x 7,50 m

Armament:
8 - 7,87" / 200 mm guns (4x2 guns), 244,10lbs / 110,72kg shells, 1914 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4,69" / 119 mm guns (4x2 guns), 51,42lbs / 23,32kg shells, 1939 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
24 - 1,97" / 50,0 mm guns (12x2 guns), 3,81lbs / 1,73kg shells, 1914 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline, all aft, 6 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1939 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2.458 lbs / 1.115 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,51" / 140 mm 378,94 ft / 115,50 m 8,86 ft / 2,70 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 105% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7,99" / 203 mm 3,94" / 100 mm 5,91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3,74" / 95 mm 2,56" / 65 mm -
3rd: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm -

- Armour deck: 1,77" / 45 mm, Conning tower: 3,74" / 95 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 126.030 shp / 94.018 Kw = 33,30 kts
Range 7.000nm at 16,20 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.107 tons

Complement:
609 - 793

Cost:
£6,587 million / $26,348 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 307 tons, 2,4%
Armour: 2.349 tons, 18,0%
- Belts: 768 tons, 5,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0%
- Armament: 788 tons, 6,0%
- Armour Deck: 747 tons, 5,7%
- Conning Tower: 45 tons, 0,3%
Machinery: 3.410 tons, 26,1%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 5.069 tons, 38,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.720 tons, 13,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,5%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12.391 lbs / 5.620 Kg = 50,8 x 7,9 " / 200 mm shells or 1,4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,01
Metacentric height 2,1 ft / 0,7 m
Roll period: 16,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 48 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,90
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,91

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak, low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0,590
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 17,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5,91 ft / 1,80 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,89 ft / 8,50 m
- Forecastle (18%): 26,25 ft / 8,00 m (25,59 ft / 7,80 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 21,98 ft / 6,70 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,72 ft / 5,40 m (20,01 ft / 6,10 m before break)
- Stern: 17,72 ft / 5,40 m
- Average freeboard: 22,35 ft / 6,81 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105,5%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 158,0%
Waterplane Area: 22.805 Square feet or 2.119 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 120 lbs/sq ft or 588 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1,00
- Longitudinal: 2,27
- Overall: 1,09
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather