WesWorld

Bharat sold two destroyers to Persia in 1940 and Persia gave a life extension refit to the ships in 1941.

XXX, Persia Destroyer laid down 1923

Displacement:
1,222 t light; 1,274 t standard; 1,392 t normal; 1,486 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
357.95 ft / 350.07 ft x 33.14 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load)
109.10 m / 106.70 m x 10.10 m x 3.20 m

Armament:
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1923 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1923 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 159 lbs / 72 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
8 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 29,597 shp / 22,079 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 212 tons

Complement:
113 - 148

Cost:
£0.463 million / $1.850 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 20 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 21 tons, 1.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 711 tons, 51.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 430 tons, 30.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 170 tons, 12.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
418 lbs / 189 Kg = 11.8 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m (10.17 ft / 3.10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Stern: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Average freeboard: 14.29 ft / 4.35 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,140 Square feet or 663 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 63 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.49
- Longitudinal: 1.66
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
- Cross-sectional: 0.49

Almost there...

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
- Cross-sectional: 0.49

Almost there...

Problem is I tried to copy the G-135 destroyers as close as possible and still came out like this. Is either that or reduce the speed of the ship.

Ah, I see - it's a Springsharp 1 design. I'll have a look at it this evening when I'm not busy and see if I can't come up with some suggestions.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Ah, I see - it's a Springsharp 1 design. I'll have a look at it this evening when I'm not busy and see if I can't come up with some suggestions.

Thanks.

May I make a recommendation? How about removing 500 nm worth of oil, saying that the hull can't hold it with the age?

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
May I make a recommendation? How about removing 500 nm worth of oil, saying that the hull can't hold it with the age?

Here is the ship with your recommendation. I guess that work.

XXX, Persia Destroyer laid down 1923, refit 1941

Displacement:
1,235 t light; 1,286 t standard; 1,392 t normal; 1,476 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
357.95 ft / 350.07 ft x 33.14 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load)
109.10 m / 106.70 m x 10.10 m x 3.20 m

Armament:
4 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1923 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1923 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1923 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 159 lbs / 72 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
8 - 21.7" / 550 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30,186 shp / 22,519 Kw = 32.15 kts
Range 4,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 190 tons

Complement:
113 - 148

Cost:
£0.466 million / $1.864 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 20 tons, 1.4 %
Armour: 21 tons, 1.5 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 1.2 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 716 tons, 51.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 437 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 157 tons, 11.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 2.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
417 lbs / 189 Kg = 11.8 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 57 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 64 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m
- Mid (50 %): 17.78 ft / 5.42 m (10.17 ft / 3.10 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Stern: 10.17 ft / 3.10 m
- Average freeboard: 14.29 ft / 4.35 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 180.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 81.5 %
Waterplane Area: 7,140 Square feet or 663 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 62 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 154 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.69
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

I was checking my old info and Brock prepared a springsharp of the ships in question. His is a much better design so I'm going with it as the refi of the old Bharati destroyers.

ex-G-135 (Amritsar) class, Indian Destroyer laid down 1923, Persian refit 1942

Displacement:
1,228 t light; 1,273 t standard; 1,386 t normal; 1,476 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
357.83 ft / 350.07 ft x 33.14 ft x 10.50 ft (normal load)
109.07 m / 106.70 m x 10.10 m x 3.20 m

Armament:
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
2 - 1.38" / 35.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.31lbs / 0.59kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
2 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, all aft
Weight of broadside 144 lbs / 65 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
8 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.97" / 50 mm - -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 29,156 shp / 21,750 Kw = 33.27 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 203 tons

Range (with 203 tons bunker fuel):
Range 330nm at 33.27 kts
Range 615nm at 27.00 kts
Range 855nm at 24.00 kts
Range 1,220nm at 21.00 kts
Range 1,795nm at 18.00 kts
Range 2,760nm at 15.00 kts
Range 4,500nm at 12.00 kts
Range 6,550nm at 10.00 kts

Complement:
113 - 147

Cost:
£0.463 million / $1.850 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 11 tons, 0.8 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 721 tons, 52.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 478 tons, 34.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 158 tons, 11.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
536 lbs / 243 Kg = 15.2 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.398
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.55 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.33 ft / 6.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (12.30 ft / 3.75 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (40 %): 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Stern: 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
- Average freeboard: 15.44 ft / 4.71 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 120.7 %
Waterplane Area: 7,403 Square feet or 688 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 66 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 157 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.44
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

You'll want all of your guns to be DP, I'd think, anti-aircraft 105mm's might not have the correct sights for AS work, and the quick-firing guns won't have the elevation for AA work.

Agreed with Hrolf.

I vaguely recall designing that one, but I can't find it in my Springsharp folder...

Brock, I guess I can play with it a little bit. I just looked at the speed and the range and didn't noticed the guns.

Don't think QF -> DP changes much in Springsharp, so it probably won't be an issue.

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine
Don't think QF -> DP changes much in Springsharp, so it probably won't be an issue.

So you think I just post it as DP weapons when the moment comes to post it on the Persian encyclopeida?

How much does this refit cost?

Quoted

Originally posted by Vukovlad
How much does this refit cost?

It just changing the weapons to Persian caliber and a life extension refit. IIRC according to the rules 15% for a ship this side and 25% over 2000 tons.

Possibly a run of four will be built in 1942 if funds are available. Pretty much slow destroyers to complement the Bharati escort ships with AA and ASW as main priorities.
Comments to improve design are welcomed.

Zam Class, Persia Destroyer Escort laid down 1942

DE Zam, laid down 1942
DE Zal, laid down 1942
DE Thunaupa, laid down 1942
DE Rashnu, laid down 1942

Displacement:
975 t light; 1,043 t standard; 1,272 t normal; 1,455 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
335.37 ft / 328.08 ft x 30.68 ft x 11.06 ft (normal load)
102.22 m / 100.00 m x 9.35 m x 3.37 m

Armament:
4 - 5.12" / 130 mm guns (2x2 guns), 67.03lbs / 30.40kg shells, 1942 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1942 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1942 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised guns
Weight of broadside 288 lbs / 130 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
4 - 24.0" / 610 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.59" / 15 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
2nd: 0.59" / 15 mm - -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 13,810 shp / 10,302 Kw = 27.80 kts
Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 412 tons

Complement:
106 - 138

Cost:
£0.731 million / $2.924 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 36 tons, 2.8 %
Armour: 14 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 1.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 361 tons, 28.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 484 tons, 38.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 296 tons, 23.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 6.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
896 lbs / 406 Kg = 13.4 x 5.1 " / 130 mm shells or 0.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 12.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.86
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.92

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.70 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.01 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (50 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Stern: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
- Average freeboard: 15.43 ft / 4.70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.6 %
Waterplane Area: 6,429 Square feet or 597 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 34 lbs/sq ft or 166 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.51
- Longitudinal: 3.26
- Overall: 0.62
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Sixteen 20mm AA guns in three mounts?

This strikes me as odd.

Quoted

Originally posted by BruceDuncan
Sixteen 20mm AA guns in three mounts?

This strikes me as odd.

Thanks. forgot a mount

The ship is based on the RL Dutch escort/gunboat planned for the DEI in 1938 found in Conway's. Springsharp allows for an increase of the speed of the design by close to five knots, so from a slow escort it turned into a slow destroyer.

Quoted

Originally posted by perdedor99
The ship is based on the RL Dutch escort/gunboat planned for the DEI in 1938 found in Conway's. Springsharp allows for an increase of the speed of the design by close to five knots, so from a slow escort it turned into a slow destroyer.

When all is said and done, matters come down to personal preference.

From my perspective, the additional speed is unnecessary - for A/S work, 20 knots is adequate speed, and at 27 knots, these ships would be handicapped operating in an AA escort role for larger fleet units. Again, if intended to keep the SLOC open, the speed is wasted.

It comes at a cost in terms of hull strength that I would not accept. The BC is very close to the limit of the acceptable. The deck layout might also be a bit cramped, but then there is no drawing to judge by.

But in terms of maintaining numbers, they may play a useful role.