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Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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1

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 8:15am

Potential Siamese vessels

So, I've got the go-ahead from CG, and I'm looking at the Siamese navy and trying to do the 1937,1938,1939 reports.

A couple of things stand out,
First that there are many older units that appear to need refurbishment. CAs, CLs, DD, SS..etc. Gives a chance to unify calibers a bit too.

Second, there is nothing in the way of mine warfare vessels.

Happy to hear opinions as to what else the Siamese need. Torn between heavy gunfire support units for coastal battles, a light CV to serve as reccn center for a CL raider unit, or a fast AC/BC flag carrier to "oppose" the various Satsuma light BCs.

So here are a pair to address that latter. A faster minelayer and some minesweepers.

Quoted


ML-1937, Siam Minelayer laid down 1937

Displacement:
900 t light; 937 t standard; 1,186 t normal; 1,385 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
216.67 ft / 213.25 ft x 39.37 ft x 9.02 ft (normal load)
66.04 m / 65.00 m x 12.00 m x 2.75 m

Armament:
3 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 106 lbs / 48 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 3,815 shp / 2,846 Kw = 18.00 kts
Range 6,270nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 449 tons

Complement:
100 - 131

Cost:
£0.312 million / $1.250 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 13 tons, 1.1 %
Armour: 13 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 9 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 4 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 106 tons, 8.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 468 tons, 39.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 286 tons, 24.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 25.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
3,117 lbs / 1,414 Kg = 102.1 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 1.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 13.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.10
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.42 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 14.60 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 19.36 ft / 5.90 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
- Mid (50 %): 16.01 ft / 4.88 m
- Quarterdeck (30 %): 8.01 ft / 2.44 m (16.01 ft / 4.88 m before break)
- Stern: 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
- Average freeboard: 13.88 ft / 4.23 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 178.4 %
Waterplane Area: 5,848 Square feet or 543 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 189 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 53 lbs/sq ft or 256 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.92
- Longitudinal: 4.12
- Overall: 1.07
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Designed to be fast and robust minelayer to quickly lay patterns.

Aft 100mm is raised to allow clear fields of fire
Aft is cut down to serve as mine deck.
Mine Capacity : 200 x 1-ton mines

50 t Additional facilities are given over to ASW gear, including amid-ships K-dischargers, to allow alternate role.


And the MS

Quoted


MWS-1937, Siam Minesweeper laid down 1937

Displacement:
350 t light; 368 t standard; 405 t normal; 435 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
166.52 ft / 164.04 ft x 22.97 ft (Bulges 29.53 ft) x 5.74 ft (normal load)
50.76 m / 50.00 m x 7.00 m (Bulges 9.00 m) x 1.75 m

Armament:
2 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 1937 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 0.51" / 13.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 75 lbs / 34 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 1,338 shp / 998 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 67 tons

Complement:
44 - 58

Cost:
£0.138 million / $0.550 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 9 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 9 tons, 2.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 7 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 2 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 37 tons, 9.1 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 195 tons, 48.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 55 tons, 13.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 24.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
741 lbs / 336 Kg = 24.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.51

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.510
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 14.07 ft / 4.29 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 12.24 ft / 3.73 m (8.96 ft / 2.73 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
- Quarterdeck (30 %): 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
- Stern: 8.96 ft / 2.73 m
- Average freeboard: 9.76 ft / 2.97 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.2 %
Waterplane Area: 2,533 Square feet or 235 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 158 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 41 lbs/sq ft or 200 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.02
- Longitudinal: 4.89
- Overall: 1.19
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Designed as an ocean going minesweeper, she is double hulled (bulges) in an effort to contain the effects of sprung seams.


Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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2

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 8:42am

Ratanakosin

The Ratanakosin class of DDs is one of those in need of refurbishment I believe.

Actually pretty capable for 1915 designs, they should be kept service. The question is to do a service-life extension or actually re-engine them.

The advantage of a new engine is not more speed, but less weight. This would allow the weapons suite to be upgraded from 3" SP and 17.7" torps to match the newer DDs with 100mm guns and 57mm AA weapons. The better fuel efficiency also allows greater range on the same bunkerage.

the original is here :

Siamese DD

So this would be the rebuild :

The potential rebuild here. The difference is only 96 tons for the refurbishment and 156 for the rebuild, so I'm inclined towards the rebuild.

Quoted


Ratanakosin, Siam Destroyer laid down 1915 (Engine 1937)

Displacement:
624 t light; 666 t standard; 774 t normal; 861 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
242.78 ft / 239.50 ft x 23.95 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
74.00 m / 73.00 m x 7.30 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
4 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.86lbs / 14.00kg shells, 1936 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all forward
Weight of broadside 149 lbs / 68 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 300
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.57" / 40 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 16,115 shp / 12,022 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 4,300nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 194 tons

Complement:
73 - 95

Cost:
£0.123 million / $0.491 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 18 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 16 tons, 2.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 1.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 336 tons, 43.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 226 tons, 29.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 150 tons, 19.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 28 tons, 3.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
228 lbs / 103 Kg = 7.5 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
Metacentric height 0.7 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 17.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 70 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (30 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 12.30 ft / 3.75 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 55.2 %
Waterplane Area: 3,664 Square feet or 340 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 25 lbs/sq ft or 124 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 3.83
- Overall: 0.61
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Aug 2nd 2010, 8:42am)


Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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3

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 9:05am

Sri Ayuthia

Another vessel in need of refurbishment is the old Italian armored cruiser, last updated in 1921.

The original SS isn't in SS2, but I came very close to matching.

New FC and AA will be paired along with a Service-Life Extension (25%) to keep it servicable. The old 3" guns, both casement and deck, will be sacrificed. New 100mm/57mm/20mm to match the rest of the navy will be fitted.

Quoted


Sri Ayuthia, Siam Armored Cruiser laid down 1921

Displacement:
10,360 t light; 10,922 t standard; 12,522 t normal; 13,802 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
480.97 ft / 474.41 ft x 73.49 ft x 25.92 ft (normal load)
146.60 m / 144.60 m x 22.40 m x 7.90 m

Armament:
4 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (2x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1921 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline, evenly spread
8 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (4x2 guns), 256.00lbs / 116.12kg shells, 1921 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all forward
8 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30.51lbs / 13.84kg shells, 1931 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
12 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1921 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 3,387 lbs / 1,536 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 9.84" / 250 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 12.30 ft / 3.75 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Upper: 3.15" / 80 mm 262.47 ft / 80.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.15" / 80 mm 4.72" / 120 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 66,014 shp / 49,247 Kw = 28.04 kts
Range 4,750nm at 20.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,880 tons

Complement:
591 - 769

Cost:
£2.638 million / $10.553 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 423 tons, 3.4 %
Armour: 3,102 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 1,431 tons, 11.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 768 tons, 6.1 %
- Armour Deck: 835 tons, 6.7 %
- Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 2,273 tons, 18.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,512 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,162 tons, 17.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
16,849 lbs / 7,643 Kg = 65.8 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.3 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.41
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.485
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.46 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.78 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -12.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 23.95 ft / 7.30 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 21.62 ft / 6.59 m
- Mid (50 %): 21.62 ft / 6.59 m
- Quarterdeck (25 %): 13.29 ft / 4.05 m (21.62 ft / 6.59 m before break)
- Stern: 13.29 ft / 4.05 m
- Average freeboard: 19.72 ft / 6.01 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.7 %
Waterplane Area: 22,918 Square feet or 2,129 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 621 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.90
- Longitudinal: 2.45
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


4

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 3:51pm

I like the minesweeper and minelayer set-ups, though I wouldn't call the minelayer "fast" except in comparison to merchant ships. I'd build at least a full squadron of them - Siam could really use a dose of realism like that.

Sri Ayuthia and the Ratanakosins are a bit more iffy to me. Sri Ayuthia at least can benefit from a twenty-year refit and modernization, and it's certainly more economical than building a new ACR. (At this point, there are enough ACRs in play that ordering one for Siam won't really give them an edge.) So it'll probably pay off. The Ratanakosins by contrast... if it wasn't so inexpensive to refit those ships, I'd not bother. They're quite small and I'm rather startled that you managed to get that much gear on such a small displacement. For light AA and ASW escorts I suppose they're fine, and since Siam isn't located on Cape Horn or the North Sea, the ships likely haven't been strained too badly - you know the type: one owner (little old lady), kept it in the garage, only drove it on Sundays... ;)

What about submarines? The Siamese could use more modern ones, perhaps akin to the Italian boats built for Chile.

Kaiser Kirk

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5

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 4:28pm

On top speed on the minelayer, I wasn't sure how far to push it. I have some Dutch designs in the mid-high 20s, but they are more "expensive" tonnage-wise.

Compared to the trawlers and fishing boats they would be a huge upgrade, and Siam can afford a squadron. So .... fewer larger & faster, or 8 of this ?

As for Subs...
Siam has 6 subs right now, 3 new Italian and 3 older Aussie. The Aussies should be coming up for refit shortly.

They could certainly use more subs, probably of the coastal variety.

One of the reasons I'm assaying this task is the Dutch offered to let the Siamese use NEI yards, which helps substantially for building/refitting space. The Dutch have also deliberately built quite a few subs in NEI to keep that skill set, so I'll probably have the Siamese build some there.

6

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 4:42pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
On top speed on the minelayer, I wasn't sure how far to push it. I have some Dutch designs in the mid-high 20s, but they are more "expensive" tonnage-wise.

Compared to the trawlers and fishing boats they would be a huge upgrade, and Siam can afford a squadron. So .... fewer larger & faster, or 8 of this ?

Eight of these. Bulgaria went the opposite way with four of the faster ships, but they're for offensive minelaying operations. Siam's got a lot more coastline to cover, and is more likely to employ defensive minelaying. This vessel is spot-on for defensive minelaying: capacity, not speed, matters. They'll also have the capability to carry troops and cargo, so they'll make decent pinch-hitters for an APD. That's my thought, anyway.

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
As for Subs...
Siam has 6 subs right now, 3 new Italian and 3 older Aussie. The Aussies should be coming up for refit shortly.

They could certainly use more subs, probably of the coastal variety.

One of the reasons I'm assaying this task is the Dutch offered to let the Siamese use NEI yards, which helps substantially for building/refitting space. The Dutch have also deliberately built quite a few subs in NEI to keep that skill set, so I'll probably have the Siamese build some there.

Ah, sounds fair enough. Sounds like the submarines can wait a year or two for the MLs/MSWs and the refits, then.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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7

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 5:17pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Brockpaine

Ah, sounds fair enough. Sounds like the submarines can wait a year or two for the MLs/MSWs and the refits, then.


Probably just repeats of the Italian Perla class now in service, though the Danish Ue class could work.

Considering the ways will be in NEI, the K35s are tempting, but are bigger than needed.

It's funny, but even with 2 factories, as long as small units are focused on, Siam can actually build/reconstruct a number of vessels. Belgium is more comfortable though, easier to build something large.

8

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 5:19pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
It's funny, but even with 2 factories, as long as small units are focused on, Siam can actually build/reconstruct a number of vessels. Belgium is more comfortable though, easier to build something large.

Similar to what I've found comparing Ireland/Bulgaria and Chile. Ireland needed a spot of infrastructure before I could really get to work, but now that's fixed, I've found I can do a surprising amount. I actually had something of a problem when I started with Chile, saying "I don't know what to do with all this production!" (I got over it. :P )

Kaiser Kirk

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9

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 6:55pm

Well things like that minelayer run 180/Q...which means theoretically Siam could build 10 at once if they had the construction space. Attempting to build a heavy cruiser- entirely different story, as a 10,000 ton ship would max out both factories. A 6,000 ton CL would leave some free production and be far more doable.

Meanwhile the Dutch are building 2 BBs and a CV at once, soaking up ~8 factories worth of production on just 3 hulls. Which really simplifies the Dutch reports... It's an enduring frustration though that I've never been able to have even production flow of heavy/light units, a treaty side effect.

10

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 7:06pm

Quoted

I actually had something of a problem when I started with Chile, saying "I don't know what to do with all this production!"


You could always just build less and invest more in your infrastructure.

For small countries it's still possible to build larger ships, they'd just have to be built at a slower rate. You don't have to put in the maximum amount of tonnage per montage. Italy slowed down the production of her two new battleships to nicely balance things out a bit. The couple of months delay as felt acceptable.

11

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 7:44pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

Quoted

I actually had something of a problem when I started with Chile, saying "I don't know what to do with all this production!"


You could always just build less and invest more in your infrastructure.

Been there, did that, got the t-shirt. To date I've spent around 30% of my production building new infrastructure or repairing old infrastructure.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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12

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 7:54pm

Well as I dig into Siam's production I may find reason to field some heavier units. Having more CA/CDBBs and/or a CVL would greatly complicate things for someone trying an amphibious operation against Siam, or even allow some light force projection locally, but first I need to get the light units in order.

13

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 8:01pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Kaiser Kirk
Well as I dig into Siam's production I may find reason to field some heavier units. Having more CA/CDBBs and/or a CVL would greatly complicate things for someone trying an amphibious operation against Siam, or even allow some light force projection locally, but first I need to get the light units in order.

I concur. Best I can recall, Siam has a fleet which I'd describe, er... generously, as "eclectic" in composition. A lot of castoffs, not enough new ships, though slowly getting better in recent years. Getting the light ships sorted out will be a big help to the Siamese, as will a cohesive naval doctrine. With the past serial Siamese players all apparently having their own doctrine, it doesn't seem to me that Siam's been able to concentrate solidly on any one thing long enough to build a fleet, just a collection of ships...

14

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 8:12pm

If Siam ever needs extra infrastructure to build ships, Australia is willing to provide some for free.

Kaiser Kirk

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15

Monday, August 2nd 2010, 9:01pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
If Siam ever needs extra infrastructure to build ships, Australia is willing to provide some for free.


Very much appreciated.
I think what I'll be doing is filling up the Siamese slips/docks, then looking at the old SIMs for the Dutch for free facilities in NEI, but I'll add Australia to that list as well.

I'll try to ensure that any construction fits in the "holes" of the sim reports already submitted.

I'll just do something like
Q1/38
overseas construction
Medan S1 : Perla class Sub x tons
Sydney S2 : Chamburi class CL x tons

yee gads what have I taken on?

16

Tuesday, August 3rd 2010, 2:58am

The Sri Ayuthia should probebly have two superfiring turrets on the side, according to the picture.

17

Tuesday, August 3rd 2010, 3:16am

Quoted

Originally posted by TexanCowboy
The Sri Ayuthia should probebly have two superfiring turrets on the side, according to the picture.

Actually, two of the turrets should be marked "below freeboard". No superfiring.

Kaiser Kirk

Lightbringer and former European Imperialist

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18

Wednesday, August 4th 2010, 7:17am

Cambian Class Cruisers

The 4 Cambian class cruisers received from the Brits badly need a refurbishment. *apparently* somebody should have kicked the keels.

My attempt to put in the SS didn't quite work out, just 1 ton more light, but up to 8t difference in categories, and I got a 0.99 comp hull..which makes it hard to SS the changes.

A simple refurbishment to make them seaworthy , swap the 102mm for the 100mm, and the 40mm for some 57mm, and maybe move from twin to triple torp tubes. ...thats 902t per ship.

Alternately, I could strip the 6" & 4" guns and field a unified battery of 120mm guns, for a 8 gun broadside. Not sure if that's much superior..but here it is...for a massive cost of 903

Comments good/bad....alternatives??? Which is better?

Quoted


Cambian, Siam light cruiser laid down 1914

Displacement:
3,612 t light; 3,750 t standard; 4,532 t normal; 5,157 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
420.00 ft / 420.00 ft x 41.50 ft x 16.25 ft (normal load)
128.02 m / 128.02 m x 12.65 m x 4.95 m

Armament:
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1930 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1936 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
6 - 2.24" / 57.0 mm guns (3x2 guns), 5.65lbs / 2.56kg shells, 1935 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
12 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 459 lbs / 208 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 166
6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.00" / 76 mm 330.00 ft / 100.58 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Ends: 2.50" / 64 mm 90.00 ft / 27.43 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm - -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -
3rd: 0.50" / 13 mm - -
4th: 0.50" / 13 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 38,408 shp / 28,652 Kw = 28.50 kts
Range 7,070nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,407 tons

Complement:
276 - 359

Cost:
£0.486 million / $1.943 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 57 tons, 1.3 %
Armour: 650 tons, 14.3 %
- Belts: 388 tons, 8.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 35 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 227 tons, 5.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,479 tons, 32.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,415 tons, 31.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 920 tons, 20.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
4,139 lbs / 1,878 Kg = 78.5 x 4.7 " / 120 mm shells or 0.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.7 m
Roll period: 11.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 61 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle
Block coefficient: 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.12 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.49 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 60 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 22.00 ft / 6.71 m (14.00 ft / 4.27 m aft of break)
- Mid (50 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Stern: 14.00 ft / 4.27 m
- Average freeboard: 16.64 ft / 5.07 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 116.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 90.5 %
Waterplane Area: 12,279 Square feet or 1,141 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 63 lbs/sq ft or 307 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.85
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kaiser Kirk" (Aug 4th 2010, 7:44am)


19

Wednesday, August 4th 2010, 10:07pm

I'd got for the 120mm outfit. Still a fine ship, sure its layout is dated and its old and slow but it packs a punch and for patrolling and coastal defence roles it still serves a purpose and can scout.