WesWorld

Keeping the ship design board alive...
Came up with this useless design after I created the Atatake.

Somewhat different from Admiral Kuznetsov's (post treaty) idea of combining three 10 inch turrets with a 16 inch turret. This idea (treaty design) was to use the 380mm guns to engage the larger ships and use the lighter and faster firing 250mm guns to engage faster smaller ships.
At least it seems to float... ;;
Any ideas to make it more acceptable...
... or more ridiculous ?
:-)

Test, Japan Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
37,869 t light; 39,991 t standard; 44,793 t normal; 48,456 t full load
Loading submergence 1,546 tons/feet

Dimensions:
850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 35.30 ft (normal load)
259.08 m x 28.96 m x 10.76 m

Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 4 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 3 guns)
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm AA guns
30 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 14,717 lbs / 6,676 kg
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 15.00" / 381 mm, 2nd turrets 15.00" / 381 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,295 shp / 126,294 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,226nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
1,539 - 2,001

Cost:
£11.914 million / $47.654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,840 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 13,864 tons, 31.0 %
Belts: 3,488 tons, 7.8 %, Armament: 4,047 tons, 9.0 %, Armour Deck: 4,504 tons, 10.1 %
Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,443 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 5,497 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,568 tons, 37.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,924 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Metacentric height 5.1

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.05
Shellfire needed to sink: 42,701 lbs / 19,369 Kg = 89.6 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 50 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.59
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.550
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.32
'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 91.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 127.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 113 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs / square foot or 984 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.03
(for 20.40 ft / 6.22 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.04 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

Walter

*glubb*

Will those 38cm turrets be wing turrets? This would add 6x 38cm guns to your end-on fire capabilities.... :o)

Are you sure? Wouldn't the 95 feet beam be too small?

Walter

make them single turrets in an S&G-like layout

Bernhard

The way I read it, the quad 25cm turrets superfire the triple 38cm turrets, one set forward, one set aft, on the centerline.

The way you read it is correct, however Hooman made that remark of the wing turrets in order to make it more ridiculous (useless superfiring turrets, triple 38cm as wing turrets on a 95 feet beam).

Walter

well, if you use the 253 mm turrets as wing turrets you have essentially reinvented the pre-dreadnought ironclad

Bernhard

Reinvent the pre-dreadnought ironclad...

That might be an idea to make it more useless...

Would the 25cm quads fit on the 95 feet beam, or do they have to be redesigned to twins?

Walter

... I came up with a couple of odd variants...

Version I: 38cm single wing turrets.
Test, Japan Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
37,869 t light; 39,991 t standard; 44,793 t normal; 48,456 t full load
Loading submergence 1,546 tons/feet

Dimensions:
850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 35.30 ft (normal load)
259.08 m x 28.96 m x 10.76 m

Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 4 guns)
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (6 2nd turrets x 1 guns)
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm AA guns
30 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 14,717 lbs / 6,676 kg
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 15.00" / 381 mm, 2nd turrets 15.00" / 381 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,295 shp / 126,294 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,226nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
1,539 - 2,001

Cost:
£11.914 million / $47.654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,840 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 14,868 tons, 33.2 %
Belts: 3,488 tons, 7.8 %, Armament: 4,551 tons, 10.2 %, Armour Deck: 5,004 tons, 11.2 %
Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,443 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 5,497 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,564 tons, 34.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,924 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Metacentric height 5.6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.10
Shellfire needed to sink: 43,655 lbs / 19,801 Kg = 91.6 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 52 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.57
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.550
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.32
'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 91.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 127.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 110 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.04
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs / square foot or 924 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.01
(for 20.40 ft / 6.22 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.04 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

Version II: Back to Basics. Pre-dreadnought ironclad speedboat.

Test, Japan Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
37,869 t light; 39,991 t standard; 44,793 t normal; 48,456 t full load
Loading submergence 1,546 tons/feet

Dimensions:
850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 35.30 ft (normal load)
259.08 m x 28.96 m x 10.76 m

Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 3 guns)
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (4 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm AA guns
30 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 14,717 lbs / 6,676 kg
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 15.00" / 381 mm, 2nd turrets 15.00" / 381 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,295 shp / 126,294 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,226nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
1,539 - 2,001

Cost:
£11.914 million / $47.654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,840 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 14,699 tons, 32.8 %
Belts: 3,488 tons, 7.8 %, Armament: 4,381 tons, 9.8 %, Armour Deck: 5,004 tons, 11.2 %
Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,443 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 5,497 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,734 tons, 35.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,924 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Metacentric height 5.6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.11
Shellfire needed to sink: 43,772 lbs / 19,855 Kg = 26.1 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 52 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.57
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.550
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.32
'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 91.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 127.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 111 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 191 lbs / square foot or 934 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.02
(for 20.40 ft / 6.22 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.04 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

Version III: Not sure what I was thinking... ;;
I think 1x3 38cm, 1x4 25cm, 1x3 38cm, with 2x2 25cm wing turrets...
Test, Japan Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
37,869 t light; 39,991 t standard; 44,793 t normal; 48,456 t full load
Loading submergence 1,546 tons/feet

Dimensions:
850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 35.30 ft (normal load)
259.08 m x 28.96 m x 10.76 m

Armament:
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 3 guns)
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm AA guns
30 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 14,717 lbs / 6,676 kg
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 15.00" / 381 mm, 2nd turrets 15.00" / 381 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 4.50" / 114 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,295 shp / 126,294 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,226nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
1,539 - 2,001

Cost:
£11.914 million / $47.654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,840 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 14,385 tons, 32.1 %
Belts: 3,488 tons, 7.8 %, Armament: 4,568 tons, 10.2 %, Armour Deck: 4,504 tons, 10.1 %
Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,443 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 5,497 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,047 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,924 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Metacentric height 5.3

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.07
Shellfire needed to sink: 43,059 lbs / 19,531 Kg = 90.3 x 9.8 " / 250 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 51 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.58
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.550
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.32
'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 91.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 127.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 111 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 195 lbs / square foot or 953 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.01
(for 20.40 ft / 6.22 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.04 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.00

Version IV: 38cm turrets forward, 2x2 25cm wingturrets, 1x4 25cm turret aft
Test, Japan Battleship laid down 1925

Displacement:
37,869 t light; 39,991 t standard; 44,793 t normal; 48,456 t full load
Loading submergence 1,546 tons/feet

Dimensions:
850.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 35.30 ft (normal load)
259.08 m x 28.96 m x 10.76 m

Armament:
6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (2 Main turrets x 3 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
8 - 9.84" / 250 mm guns
16 - 4.72" / 120 mm AA guns
30 - 0.98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 14,717 lbs / 6,676 kg
6 - 24.0" / 609.6 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
Belt 14.00" / 356 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 93 % of normal area
Main turrets 15.00" / 381 mm, 2nd turrets 15.00" / 381 mm
AA gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm, Light gun shields 1.00" / 25 mm
Armour deck 4.20" / 107 mm, Conning tower 14.00" / 356 mm
Torpedo bulkhead 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 169,295 shp / 126,294 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 14,226nm at 15.00 kts

Complement:
1,539 - 2,001

Cost:
£11.914 million / $47.654 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,840 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 14,187 tons, 31.7 %
Belts: 3,488 tons, 7.8 %, Armament: 4,671 tons, 10.4 %, Armour Deck: 4,203 tons, 9.4 %
Conning Tower: 382 tons, 0.9 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 1,443 tons, 3.2 %
Machinery: 5,497 tons, 12.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,245 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,924 tons, 15.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.2 %

Metacentric height 5.1

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1.05
Shellfire needed to sink: 42,736 lbs / 19,385 Kg = 25.5 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 5.4
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 52 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0.60
Relative quality as seaboat: 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0.550
Sharpness coefficient: 0.36
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7.32
'Natural speed' for length: 29.15 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 91.7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 127.5 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 112 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1.00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs / square foot or 965 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1.08
(for 20.40 ft / 6.22 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment -0.04 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1.01

Walter