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Originally posted by thesmilingassassin
50% rebuild, they are conversions from shallow draft tankers.
Just to clarify the converted version is 6,533 tons with 4,200 tons misc weight. with the LST rule thats light tonnage minus misc which is 2,333 tons. 50% conversion is 1,117 tons.
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Originally posted by TexanCowboy
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although purpose-built (non-civilian conversion) oilers and resupply ships could probably also be built to that
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
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Originally posted by HrolfHakonson
On the first sentence, do you mean that to apply to ships like tankers, destroyer/submarine/seaplane/etc tenders, and armed merchant cruisers? Or should "Auxiliary/" be replaced by "Specialized "?
Eh, probably should make it Specialized Landing Ships only, although purpose-built (non-civilian conversion) oilers and resupply ships could probably also be built to that.
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Originally posted by ShinRa_Inc
I'm...of mixed feelings. We discussed a rule pertaining to new-build ships, making them affordable. You seem to have taken that rule, and applied it to a RR&R rules, and thus gained even more benefit and economic savings than the original discussion seemed to entail.
I'm not sure if I agree with that or not, but feel that particular aspect should be made clear either way.
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- Purpose-built landing ships of 3,001t or greater light tonnage shall be built to light tonnage minus miscellaneous weight of cargo. [1] [2]
- Landing ships and landing craft of 3,000t or less shall be built to 75% light tonnage minus miscellaneous weight of cargo.
[1] Including, for example, tanks, or water in flooded well decks; but not including things like radar, workshops, cranes, etc.
[2] As we've discussed here and in the Landing Ship Dock thread.
[3] In this case, Hrolf's LST would be (1,789 - 780) * .75 = 757 tons to build.
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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
As far as conversions go, I'd say cost them as if they were new construction. That way the purchaser is neither advantaged nor hurt by going down the conversion route.
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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
My concern is that if conversions are too cheap, we'll suddenly see lots of them, and there really shouldn't be lots of appropriate hulls to convert for a landing ship (those shallow draft tankers are one of the few types that would work decently).
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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Also, there's plenty of less-focused designs (like your proposed LSI) that are not so specialized that they need to be paid for at this rate, the old rate for auxiliaries (pay for the military equipment) would be fine.
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
My concern is that if conversions are too cheap, we'll suddenly see lots of them, and there really shouldn't be lots of appropriate hulls to convert for a landing ship (those shallow draft tankers are one of the few types that would work decently).
By landing ship, you're meaning vessels intended to beach (like LSTs) and vessels with unusual hull designs (such as LSDs), not ships like the USN's attack transports, I presume.
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Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Also, there's plenty of less-focused designs (like your proposed LSI) that are not so specialized that they need to be paid for at this rate, the old rate for auxiliaries (pay for the military equipment) would be fine.
I have two different LSI designs. The one I posted is purpose-built; the one I haven't posted is a conversion job based off the HMCS Prince David. (That's the one I'm currently budgeted for, as it's the higher amount.) Both ships oddly have fairly similar landing capabilities, but my converted ship has a higher speed.
So here's the humdinger I'm running into as part of this discussion, comparing the rules.
- My conversion LSI(M) will cost 2287 tons to refit with a 50% rebuild job.
- My conversion LSI(M) will cost 1537 tons to refit with a 50% rebuild job under proposed rules.
- My purpose-built LSI (posted in the other thread) will cost 2,650 tons under the current rules.
- My purpose-built LSI will cost me 1,250 tons under the proposed rules.
This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Hrolf Hakonson" (Jun 16th 2010, 5:08pm)
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Originally posted by Brockpaine
It's got new engines and a complete superstructure rebuild, just like the HMCS Prince David. They basically turned the old 1929 liner into a ship with a cruiser's silhouette:
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