WesWorld

A few ships Australia is considering building:



First up, a self-escorting oiler. Basiclly an oiler with a flight deck and small hangar. Use would be as a convoy flagship, providing fuel for the convoy escorts.

Both the original idea and the pic (modified) where stolen from Rocky.

HMAS Flinders Range, Australia Self-escorting Oiler laid down 1936

Displacement:
5,001 t light; 5,234 t standard; 10,114 t normal; 14,017 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
495.67 ft / 490.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 17.20 ft (normal load)
151.08 m / 149.35 m x 21.34 m x 5.24 m

Armament:
4 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (2x2 guns), 51.91lbs / 23.55kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 236 lbs / 107 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 2.00" / 51 mm 200.00 ft / 60.96 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 63 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.20" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 15,881 shp / 11,847 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 40,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 8,783 tons

Complement:
503 - 655

Cost:
£1.382 million / $5.530 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 29 tons, 0.3 %
Armour: 649 tons, 6.4 %
- Belts: 174 tons, 1.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 11 tons, 0.1 %
- Armour Deck: 464 tons, 4.6 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 446 tons, 4.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,826 tons, 27.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,113 tons, 50.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 1,050 tons, 10.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
49,434 lbs / 22,423 Kg = 952.3 x 4.7 " / 119 mm shells or 7.6 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.72
Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
Roll period: 11.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.84

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.50 ft / 0.76 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Mid (40 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Stern: 17.00 ft / 5.18 m
- Average freeboard: 17.24 ft / 5.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 29.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 161.5 %
Waterplane Area: 25,086 Square feet or 2,331 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 358 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 402 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.98
- Longitudinal: 1.17
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

10 Aircraft



***


A battleline escort cruiser based on the Sydney's Large Light Cruisers hull. The Sydney's 5x3 6" guns are replaced with 6 twins, improving RoF. Other changes are the rearranged aircraft facilities, heavier AA, and heavier armor.

HMAS Melbourne, Australia Light Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
9,103 t light; 9,507 t standard; 11,340 t normal; 12,807 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
611.66 ft / 600.00 ft x 60.00 ft x 24.50 ft (normal load)
186.43 m / 182.88 m x 18.29 m x 7.47 m

Armament:
18 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,492 lbs / 1,130 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 77,139 shp / 57,546 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,300 tons

Complement:
549 - 714

Cost:
£4.798 million / $19.192 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 312 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 2,226 tons, 19.6 %
- Belts: 649 tons, 5.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 474 tons, 4.2 %
- Armour Deck: 1,103 tons, 9.7 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,138 tons, 18.9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,352 tons, 38.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,237 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 75 tons, 0.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,521 lbs / 7,040 Kg = 143.7 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.13 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.4 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.5 %
Waterplane Area: 23,853 Square feet or 2,216 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 527 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily



***


A couple more designs coming soon...

Interesting concept. That floating bomb will carry avgas or standard oil?

Why does Australia think they need such a vessel?

The cruiser has a relatively low BC and really high bunkerage....

Quoted

Interesting concept. That floating bomb will carry avgas or standard oil?

It's an oiler and it is to refuel the convoy escorts. So it would seem obvious that it mainly carries oil to refuel those other ships.

Quoted

Why does Australia think they need such a vessel?

Seems to me as if they want to outdo the Filipinos when it comes to blowing up ships.

Quoted

The cruiser has a relatively low BC and really high bunkerage....

Does seem to be that case. Regarding the fuel, considering the area that Australia needs to deal with with SAER, that's wasting hull strength. You need to spend more HS on the fuel than that you get back from making the ship bigger.

I question the need for armour on the oiler. It would just be far too difficult, expensive and time consuming to bother fitting armour. Its hardly as if offers any protection anyway. A shell hits and she's going up in smoke.

20knts is pretty fast for a merchant vessel, probably more like 15-16knts. I don't see the need for two lifts. In fact you're most likely better off having no hangar at all.

I'd also like to ask; convoys to where? and who is expected to attack them?

The filipinoes, and as a result that carrier/oiler will have no chance as they will just be flinging cigar smoking penguins at it!

Quoted

Why does Australia think they need such a vessel?

Why do people build oilers? That's basiclly what it is, and oiler with a flight deck and a small airwing, much like the RN MACs.

Quoted

I'd also like to ask; convoys to where? and who is expected to attack them?

Great Britain. And it's not like GB is around the corner. Trade protection is Australial's biggest concern right now.

Quoted

20knts is pretty fast for a merchant vessel, probably more like 15-16knts. I don't see the need for two lifts. In fact you're most likely better off having no hangar at all.

I also want her too operate with the fleet. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

On long missions the planes will need some protection, and repair facilities. This is not a cross Atlantic operation.

Quoted

Does seem to be that case. Regarding the fuel, considering the area that Australia needs to deal with with SAER, that's wasting hull strength. You need to spend more HS on the fuel than that you get back from making the ship bigger.

True, but the ship was based of the Sydney's which do require the long range. I'll reduce fuel and see how much I can reduce her cost.

Quoted

A shell hits and she's going up in smoke.

More like going up in flames.

Quoted

True, but the ship was based of the Sydney's which do require the long range.

Considering your appointed SAER sector, the fact that the Sydneys require the long range is a load of Bravo-Sierra.

... and Bravo-Sierra is not allowed.
(sorry I just had to create some excuse to use it...)

Also, to me that coiler required a raises forecastle, a raised quarterdeck and a raised midsection, something not obvious when using a flush deck (which it does not have)...
I slightly altered the freeboard to have at least the raised forecastle and quarterdeck, removed the useless armor, lowered the speed to 16 knots (as Gavin suggested), removed a little bit of miscellaneous weights and raised the fuel capacity a bit. This one is a bit cheaper so the 1200 tons you free up here you could use to make HMAS Melbourne a little bit bigger.


HMAS Flinders Range, Oz Self-escorting Coiler laid down 1936

Displacement:
3,793 t light; 4,027 t standard; 10,114 t normal; 14,983 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
496.30 ft / 490.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 17.20 ft (normal load)
151.27 m / 149.35 m x 21.34 m x 5.24 m

Armament:
4 - 4.70" / 119 mm guns (2x2 guns), 51.91lbs / 23.55kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 236 lbs / 107 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 220

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 7,064 shp / 5,270 Kw = 16.00 kts
Range 50,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 10,956 tons

Complement:
503 - 655

Cost:
£0.977 million / $3.908 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 29 tons, 0.3%
Machinery: 198 tons, 2.0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,616 tons, 25.9%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,320 tons, 62.5%
Miscellaneous weights: 950 tons, 9.4%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63,212 lbs / 28,673 Kg = 1,217.7 x 4.7 " / 119 mm shells or 11.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.89
Metacentric height 8.1 ft / 2.5 m
Roll period: 10.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.01
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.74

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.14 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 2.50 ft / 0.76 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (20%): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m (12.50 ft / 3.81 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 12.50 ft / 3.81 m
- Quarterdeck (18%): 20.50 ft / 6.25 m (12.50 ft / 3.81 m before break)
- Stern: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
- Average freeboard: 15.82 ft / 4.82 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 20.7%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 118.7%
Waterplane Area: 25,086 Square feet or 2,331 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 639%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 78 lbs/sq ft or 379 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.00
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

So pretty much you want a carrier that can do everything but is still very small, cheap and simple. Given your requirements you are far better off in building a Colossus Class carrier and a separate fleet replenishment vessel. The RN fell into the same trap pre-war when they were thinking about building escort carriers, they specced merchant vessel conversions that would actually be more capable than the Colossus class as built.

A MAC conversion is simple. It really just involves strapping a flight deck over the hull, with the internals being unchanged.

The cruiser will be extremely cramped, not really suitable for the long distance cruising you envisage.

... and if you were to go for that slower but cheaper Coiler, the extra 1200 tons spent on Melbourne could give you something like this. Raised BC a bit, lowered the range, added a knot and added a bit of belt.


HMAS Melbourne, Oz Light Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
10,300 t light; 10,711 t standard; 11,730 t normal; 12,546 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
615.06 ft / 602.00 ft x 62.00 ft x 22.00 ft (normal load)
187.47 m / 183.49 m x 18.90 m x 6.71 m

Armament:
18 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x3 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1937 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1937 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1937 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 2,492 lbs / 1,130 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 120
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 360.00 ft / 109.73 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92% of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 90,881 shp / 67,797 Kw = 33.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 1,834 tons

Complement:
563 - 732

Cost:
£5.317 million / $21.269 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 312 tons, 2.7%
Armour: 2,657 tons, 22.7%
- Belts: 959 tons, 8.2%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0%
- Armament: 502 tons, 4.3%
- Armour Deck: 1,196 tons, 10.2%
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0%
Machinery: 2,519 tons, 21.5%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,713 tons, 40.2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,430 tons, 12.2%
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.9%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,834 lbs / 7,182 Kg = 146.6 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.06
Metacentric height 2.7 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.71 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (20%): 22.10 ft / 6.74 m
- Mid (50%): 22.10 ft / 6.74 m
- Quarterdeck (20%): 22.10 ft / 6.74 m
- Stern: 22.10 ft / 6.74 m
- Average freeboard: 22.57 ft / 6.88 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.2%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.5%
Waterplane Area: 25,861 Square feet or 2,403 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 109 lbs/sq ft or 533 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.81
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


... but that's just how I would do it...

Quoted

Considering your appointed SAER sector, the fact that the Sydneys require the long range is a load of Bravo-Sierra.

... and Bravo-Sierra is not allowed.
(sorry I just had to create some excuse to use it...)

The Sydneys were built before SEAR, and frankly Australia beleives that fighting for France or Russia is Bravo-Sierra.

Quoted

So pretty much you want a carrier that can do everything but is still very small, cheap and simple. Given your requirements you are far better off in building a Colossus Class carrier and a separate fleet replenishment vessel. The RN fell into the same trap pre-war when they were thinking about building escort carriers, they specced merchant vessel conversions that would actually be more capable than the Colossus class as built.

A MAC conversion is simple. It really just involves strapping a flight deck over the hull, with the internals being unchanged.

No I don't want a carrier that can do everything. Like I said this is an oiler with a flight deck. All the aircraft facilities are external to the ship itself, internally she is just an oiler.

"One idea to spring up was a proposal to design Merchant ship hulls ready for easy converion to carriers. The draft requirements for this ships were as follows;
18kts diesel powered (6 months deep load),
15000nm at 15kts
550 by 75 ft flight deck
2 twin 4in
4 * predictor controlled pompoms
Hanger for 12 aircraft (with 6 non - folding)
As many 20mm as possible
Consideration was to be given too deck armour against dive bombing over mags and machinery with the best possible underwater sub division.

I can only say not bad for a Merchant ship. Not even a Colossus had most of that. "

Your oiler has belt armour, heavy LA armament and more AA guns, in addition to being an oiler. Its the complete opposite of cheap and simple, in which case a real carrier might as well be built instead.

Who are you expecting to attack on those long convoys to GB? India who you've just signed an agreement with? South Africa which has no interest (but you can never trust those evil afrikaaners :)? Iberia which has no interest? Atlantis who you're allied with? France who you're allied with?

It doesn't really add up.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

... and Bravo-Sierra is not allowed.

Wouldn't that be " Caution Bravo Sierra Ahead"

THIS would be "No Bravo Sierra Allowed"!!!

Quoted

Wouldn't that be " Caution Bravo Sierra Ahead"

In my part of the world, the caution sign would be like this:

The other one would be a "not allowed sign"

You guys are having too much fun with those.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rooijen10

Quoted

Wouldn't that be " Caution Bravo Sierra Ahead"

In my part of the world, the caution sign would be like this:

The other one would be a "not allowed sign"

Over here, that means "Yield" or "Give way to ...."

Are you sure that's what you want?????

Quoted

Over here, that means "Yield" or "Give way to ...."

Are you sure that's what you want?????

If a bull came storming right at me? Definitely!!!!

Hey! Stop the thread hijacking!

Quoted

I can only say not bad for a Merchant ship. Not even a Colossus had most of that. "

Colossus was capable of 25 knots and had an airwing of 48 AC. That's quite a difference.

Quoted

Your oiler has belt armour, heavy LA armament and more AA guns, in addition to being an oiler. Its the complete opposite of cheap and simple, in which case a real carrier might as well be built instead.

Liberty ships had heavy armament, and armor, and they were merchants. My ship only has a 4 plane hangar, its not exacly an aircraft carrier.

Quoted

Who are you expecting to attack on those long convoys to GB? India who you've just signed an agreement with? South Africa which has no interest (but you can never trust those evil afrikaaners ? Iberia which has no interest? Atlantis who you're allied with? France who you're allied with?

You don't get to pick your enemies, plan for the worst, hope for the best. This ship is perfect for fending of submarines or spotting surface raiders.

And I still need oilers. Might as well put their long flat decks and reserve bouyancy to use.

Quoted

Originally posted by Red Admiral

20knts is pretty fast for a merchant vessel, probably more like 15-16knts. I don't see the need for two lifts. In fact you're most likely better off having no hangar at all.

The funny thing is two days ago I was wondering about converting the 5 fleet colliers the Dutch keep forgetting we have to various tasks. So I looked up the collier that RAM converted to the Hund, he specified there were two and provided a "pre" sim- with a 20knot speed.

I might just take a gander at the Aussie idea
oh, and of course you can trust the Afrikaaners, it's those Bharat-bazooks that you have to be careful of.


As for the cruiser's bunkerage, it is quite high and probably near max. I tried some ships a while ago, hull dimensions, speed, range.. run report.. 17-19% is what I recall near the top for like USN vessels. While the Panzerschiffs were higher, there was no allowance for better diesel fuel consumption. In this case the "ammunition" part of the equation is probably responsible for at least that 0.7% over 19%.

However, I'm amazed that my 6 turret CL on a 666ft hull was shot down- despite my pointing out the BB Ise fit 6 twin 14" on 640 ft, yet no peep about that here with 6 turrets on 600 feet.
I do note the text says six twins, but the SS shows 6 triples.

Quoted

I might just take a gander at the Aussie idea
oh, and of course you can trust the Afrikaaners, it's those Bharat-bazooks that you have to be careful of.

Interestingly I stole the idea from the Indians!

Quoted

As for the cruiser's bunkerage, it is quite high and probably near max. I tried some ships a while ago, hull dimensions, speed, range.. run report.. 17-19% is what I recall near the top for like USN vessels. While the Panzerschiffs were higher, there was no allowance for better diesel fuel consumption. In this case the "ammunition" part of the equation is probably responsible for at least that 0.7% over 19%.

All of the Australian ships have large bunkers, even the destroyers are capable of 7,000miles at 15knots! I was originally going to reduce range a bit, but I noticed that all my other cruisers are capable of at least 14k @ 15.

Quoted

However, I'm amazed that my 6 turret CL on a 666ft hull was shot down- despite my pointing out the BB Ise fit 6 twin 14" on 640 ft, yet no peep about that here with 6 turrets on 600 feet.

The US Brooklyns had 5 triples on 600ft. Of course a 666ft cruiser is just plain wrong.

Quoted

I do note the text says six twins, but the SS shows 6 triples.

I just noticed I posted the wrong SS2 report, the correct one is below.

HMAS Melbourne, Australia Light Cruiser laid down 1936

Displacement:
8,505 t light; 8,885 t standard; 10,652 t normal; 12,066 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
601.66 ft / 590.00 ft x 59.00 ft x 23.80 ft (normal load)
183.39 m / 179.83 m x 17.98 m x 7.25 m

Armament:
12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1936 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
16 - 4.00" / 102 mm guns (8x2 guns), 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1936 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x4 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1936 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
20 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1936 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 1,844 lbs / 836 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
12 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 340.00 ft / 103.63 m 9.00 ft / 2.74 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.00" / 127 mm 1.50" / 38 mm 3.00" / 76 mm
2nd: 1.50" / 38 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.50" / 64 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 74,608 shp / 55,658 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 14,900nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,181 tons

Complement:
523 - 681

Cost:
£4.136 million / $16.543 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 231 tons, 2.2 %
Armour: 2,112 tons, 19.8 %
- Belts: 647 tons, 6.1 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 398 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 1,067 tons, 10.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 2,093 tons, 19.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,019 tons, 37.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,147 tons, 20.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
15,326 lbs / 6,952 Kg = 141.9 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 14.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.450
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 27.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 25.00 ft / 7.62 m
- Forecastle (30 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Mid (50 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 20.00 ft / 6.10 m
- Stern: 19.00 ft / 5.79 m
- Average freeboard: 20.50 ft / 6.25 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 128.1 %
Waterplane Area: 23,065 Square feet or 2,143 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 501 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.70
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox

Quoted

I do note the text says six twins, but the SS shows 6 triples.

I just noticed I posted the wrong SS2 report, the correct one is below.

I was wondering when someone else would notice that.