WesWorld

An new design that will be built during 1933, probably instead of the complex 1933 Class.

This design has the majority of its guns aft to cover the retreat while nine 600mm torpedoes provide the main stiking power. I've gone for the 100mm for volume of fire over hitting power. I could swap them for two 130mm guns but that is not firepower for defenive purposes. 34kts not a bad speed either.

As ever feel free to probe and discuss.

Project 414A, Argentina Torpedo Destroyer laid down 1935

Displacement:
1,102 t light; 1,147 t standard; 1,217 t normal; 1,272 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
345.33 ft / 328.08 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.99 ft (normal load)
105.26 m / 100.00 m x 9.00 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
6 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns (3x2 guns), 30.42lbs / 13.80kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 187 lbs / 85 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 200
9 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30,500 shp / 22,753 Kw = 34.04 kts
Range 2,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 125 tons

Complement:
102 - 133

Cost:
£0.723 million / $2.893 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 23 tons, 1.9 %
Armour: 13 tons, 1.1 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 8 tons, 0.7 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 5 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 599 tons, 49.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 417 tons, 34.2 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 115 tons, 9.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 4.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
377 lbs / 171 Kg = 12.3 x 3.9 " / 100 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 12.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.77 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 68 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 20.34 ft / 6.20 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 19.03 ft / 5.80 m
- Mid (47 %): 15.09 ft / 4.60 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.73 ft / 4.49 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 178.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 31.6 %
Waterplane Area: 6,189 Square feet or 575 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 61 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 149 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.92
- Overall: 0.59
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor

Range is pretty short, how far will you get at full speed on the same tonnage of fuel?

9 600mm tubes might be a bit much on this size of a hull, since that (probably) means 3 triple tubes.

If you want rain of shells 200 per gun is not enough...

I´d also modify her very high l:b ratio....

With a torpedo spread like that I'd expect her to be hitting an enemy battleline, her main armament seems a little light for dealing with enemy screening vessels. looking at the Japanese matsu class I'd agree with Hrolf that the TT amrament seems optimistic.

Perhaps 4x5.1", 6x23" TT would be better?

I've based the design on the German Flottentorpedoboot 1941 Class. Looking at her they may be just enough room for three 600mm triples if you remove the midships 100mm. Japanese torpedo mounts always had cumberosme splinter screens which took up extra space.

I did design a Matsu-like escort but I was never happy with it.

Maybe I'll take my 115mm gun (25kg shell) and put that on a beefed up 100mm twin mount and add some more ammo. Change to the breech too, no hydralic rammer but back to manpower! Three or four 130mm singles might be too heavy given the extra bunkerage I need. I'm sure the 2000nm is a mistake on my part since I thought I'd entered a higher figure on SS. Nine torpedoes is the minimum I'll accept given the role this ship has.

Well, the Flottentorpedoboat 41 was a much larger ship with a max. displacement of 2190ts. If we´re talking the same design here, that is. While similar to your design regarding some specs (overall length, depth and speed) they carried only 4x10,5cm and 6x21" TTs while their range was ~3000nm at 19kn. They also had a l:b ratio a tid bit below 10:1.....

Keep in mind that the 600mm torps are AT LEAST a meter longer than the 533mm torps carried on the Flottentorpedoboot 1941, so add probably at least 1.5 m to each torpedo mount. Looking at the Flottentorpedoboot 1941, I can't see getting a third bank on board without removing the midships 10.5cm gun, the rear AA mounting, and probably shrinking the aft stack as well.

Another go, 115mm guns, more ammo, more range/bunkerage but 0.5kts slower and a bit fatter. Change to two qaud torpedo mounts too to save space.

Project 414C, Argentina Torpedo Destroyer laid down 1935

Displacement:
1,260 t light; 1,337 t standard; 1,489 t normal; 1,611 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
378.38 ft / 360.89 ft x 32.81 ft x 10.99 ft (normal load)
115.33 m / 110.00 m x 10.00 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (3x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 335 lbs / 152 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 30,900 shp / 23,051 Kw = 33.49 kts
Range 2,650nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 274 tons

Complement:
119 - 155

Cost:
£0.866 million / $3.464 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.3 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.9 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 688 tons, 46.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 468 tons, 31.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 229 tons, 15.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 3.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
515 lbs / 234 Kg = 11.1 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
Roll period: 10.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.15

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.00 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 21.80 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 65 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.37 ft / 5.60 m
- Mid (47 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.51 ft / 4.42 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 172.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 70.0 %
Waterplane Area: 7,566 Square feet or 703 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 71 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 32 lbs/sq ft or 155 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.86
- Overall: 0.57
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

[Edit, I've now changed her design further, added another 5m on the waterline, 30 tons more displacement, mostly gone towards bunkerage, extra 300hp power, better seakeeping so freeboard reduced and extra weight freed gone into bunkerage. I will post a revised SS report later]

Final design that I am happy with overall.

Project 414C, Argentina Torpedo Destroyer laid down 1935

Displacement:
1,290 t light; 1,368 t standard; 1,555 t normal; 1,705 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
394.78 ft / 377.30 ft x 32.81 ft x 10.99 ft (normal load)
120.33 m / 115.00 m x 10.00 m x 3.35 m

Armament:
6 - 4.53" / 115 mm guns (3x2 guns), 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1932 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline forward, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
Weight of broadside 335 lbs / 152 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0.98" / 25 mm 0.59" / 15 mm -
2nd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

- Conning tower: 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 31,200 shp / 23,275 Kw = 33.53 kts
Range 3,200nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 337 tons

Complement:
123 - 160

Cost:
£0.890 million / $3.561 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 35 tons, 2.3 %
Armour: 19 tons, 1.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 13 tons, 0.8 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 6 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 715 tons, 46.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 471 tons, 30.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 265 tons, 17.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 3.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
538 lbs / 244 Kg = 11.6 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.48
Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.6 m
Roll period: 10.2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 11.50 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 22.21 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 21.00 ft / 6.40 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 17.72 ft / 5.40 m
- Mid (47 %): 14.27 ft / 4.35 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Stern: 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
- Average freeboard: 14.18 ft / 4.32 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 171.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 73.2 %
Waterplane Area: 7,908 Square feet or 735 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 73 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 31 lbs/sq ft or 152 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.54
- Overall: 0.56
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped

Much better, I acctually like this design and might even seek a licence to build her to a modified design in Atlantean yards!

Question: how many tons alloted to torpedo's?

Wes, I'm sure we can come to some agreement...

Meanwhile here is a picture for you all to enjoy.

Quite Germanic in appearance, might be better if I "copy" the design and give it the distinctive Atlantean appearance.

It IS quite Germanic-looking, isn't it? Might take it as an inspiration if I need to reinforce the torpedo boat squadrons in the Baltic.

Just a note. When the war with SAE begins all units of the fleet will recieve this paint scheme.

Dark grey hull with dark green splinters with two large fake waves (location to vary on each ship) with lighter grey and purple-pink patches at ends to hide length. All masts and funnels also in purple-pink in the attempt to make them blend into the skyline better. Superstructure to be light grey with dark grey and green splinters.

Battleships and battlecrusiers may get some elements of this scheme but mainly dark grey with light grey splinter scheme on hull and fake bow waves.

Misc weight as follows;
Sonar 20 tons
DC racks and throwers 15 tons
Torpedoes 12 tons
3 tons left over for growth (extra AA guns)

Quoted

Just a note. When the war with SAE begins all units of the fleet will recieve this paint scheme.

And you undo all of the diplomatic progress made between Nordmark & Argentina.

Sorry, should have said if rather than when. Even though most players know something is cooking up down South. When we catch up with the news you guys will understand, things may not be as clear cut as you think.

Still its nice to design a camo scheme and get my fleet looking neat again.

It was just an OOC warning, especially as Nordmark is endeavouring to avoid becoming embroiled in another war.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hood
Just a note. When the war with SAE begins all units of the fleet will recieve this paint scheme.

Super.....

Quoted

And you undo all of the diplomatic progress made between Nordmark & Argentina.

But aren't the South Africans and/or the Brazilians the ones starting this conflict?

Quoted

Originally posted by Earl822
It was just an OOC warning, especially as Nordmark is endeavouring to avoid becoming embroiled in another war.

Heh and I'm curious to see the extent, if any, to which the Netherlands becomes involved.