WesWorld

A complete ripoff of the Russian nation's idea.

The fast cruiser will be build late in the year tied to the story as a repayment to the Iberian help for helping in the infrastructure and as a way for the Iberians to counter the Mexican fast cruisers, pretty much a political message showing the world the strength of our alliance.

Almirante Grau, Peru Extra Heavy Cruiser laid down 1934

Displacement:
14,329 t light; 15,142 t standard; 16,673 t normal; 17,898 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
704.86 ft / 686.00 ft x 74.00 ft x 23.00 ft (normal load)
214.84 m / 209.09 m x 22.56 m x 7.01 m

Armament:
9 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (3x3 guns), 500.00lbs / 226.80kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x3 guns), 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1934 Model
Dual purpose guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side, all amidships, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
32 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1934 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
8 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0.48lbs / 0.22kg shells, 1934 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 5,510 lbs / 2,499 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 23.6" / 600 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 387.50 ft / 118.11 m 9.84 ft / 3.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 4.92" / 125 mm
2nd: 1.97" / 50 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 1.97" / 50 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
4th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
5th: 0.79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 2.76" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 96,133 shp / 71,716 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,756 tons

Complement:
733 - 953

Cost:
£7.203 million / $28.811 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 689 tons, 4.1 %
Armour: 3,625 tons, 21.7 %
- Belts: 966 tons, 5.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 810 tons, 4.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,793 tons, 10.8 %
- Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 2,766 tons, 16.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,150 tons, 42.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,344 tons, 14.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
21,009 lbs / 9,530 Kg = 42.0 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
Roll period: 15.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.500
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.27 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 24.00 ft / 7.32 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Mid (50 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Stern: 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Average freeboard: 18.60 ft / 5.67 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 141.9 %
Waterplane Area: 35,167 Square feet or 3,267 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 693 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.13
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Secondary armament = 3 X HA/LA twin turrets on each beam.
Torpedoes are mounted in 2 quad turrets, 1 to each beam

The other ship will be laid down at the end of the year, expected to be destroyer squadron leaders. Three are planned to be build between 1934 to 1936.

Independencia Class, German designed Peruvian Heavy Destroyers
Independencia: laid down 1934
Union: laid down 1935
Libertad: laid down 1936
Displacement:
2,851 t light; 2,979 t standard; 3,288 t normal; 3,536 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
483.15 ft / 465.88 ft x 44.29 ft x 13.94 ft (normal load)
147.26 m / 142.00 m x 13.50 m x 4.25 m

Armament:
6 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1933 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1933 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1933 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 0.79" / 25.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1933 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 715 lbs / 324 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
10 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 2.76" / 70 mm 1.57" / 40 mm 2.76" / 70 mm
2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
4th: 0.39" / 10 mm 0.39" / 10 mm -

- Conning tower: 2.76" / 70 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,758 shp / 45,325 Kw = 36.00 kts
Range 5,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 557 tons

Complement:
216 - 282

Cost:
£1.889 million / $7.557 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 89 tons, 2.7 %
Armour: 80 tons, 2.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 66 tons, 2.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 13 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 1,605 tons, 48.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,036 tons, 31.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 438 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
941 lbs / 427 Kg = 9.1 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 2.6 ft / 0.8 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.52 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.86 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27.07 ft / 8.25 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m
- Mid (45 %): 20.51 ft / 6.25 m (13.94 ft / 4.25 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Stern: 13.94 ft / 4.25 m
- Average freeboard: 17.42 ft / 5.31 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 127.6 %
Waterplane Area: 13,182 Square feet or 1,225 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 75 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 45 lbs/sq ft or 219 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 0.55
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

10 tons reserved for depth charges and rails

30 tons reserved for mines and growth

Quoted

A complete ripoff of the Russian nation's idea.

Russian nation's idea? To be honest, it reminds me more of the original Basilan design than the Admiral Makarov.

On the Almirante Grau, looks kind of poorly armored for the size of her main battery, doesn't it? The ship is no better armored, and in some cases has less armor in similar areas, than Admiral Hipper, yet she has main guns 44mm larger.

I have to say, the same criticisms I made of the last design apply here.

Quoted

Originally posted by SATSUMA
I have to say, the same criticisms I made of the last design apply here.

Erp, sorry - that was me.

Looks like the SATSUMA multipul personality syndrom is spreading!

As for Peru's choice of ships, just what designs are they trying to counter? I'd assume the Chilean Tylor with the first design while the later heavy DD designs are to counter the various scout cruisers of its neighbours.

I think it might be useful to go with 12x210mm guns in triples. Reduce the 120mm secondaries to 8 guns, 4 each side. Use the weight saved to increase the length of the belt.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
On the Almirante Grau, looks kind of poorly armored for the size of her main battery, doesn't it? The ship is no better armored, and in some cases has less armor in similar areas, than Admiral Hipper, yet she has main guns 44mm larger.

Your HIPPERs have a hull form closer to a capital ship which I guess, combined with their slower speed and weaker secondary/light batteries, helps them to carry heavier main guns....

Well Villa packs same guns, same speed, and more armor on less tonnage. I was thinking why not buy a Santa Maria (which Iberia has to get rid off once Luna is finished) and rebuild it in Iberia? Achives the same purpose.

Quoted

Originally posted by Desertfox
Well Villa packs same guns, same speed, and more armor on less tonnage. I was thinking why not buy a Santa Maria (which Iberia has to get rid off once Luna is finished) and rebuild it in Iberia? Achives the same purpose.

My idea is to have a fast squadron (32 knots or more) and while the Santa Maria's are indeed a superior ship in armor and comparable in main battery they are too slow and the cost of rebuilding them would be as much as building a brand new unit.

But I have to admit the lack of fiscal responsability of the Peruvian Naval Ministry is stagerring.

The license for the following ships will be purchased from Germany sometime in 1934. How many will be build will depend of the funds available.

P-5, Germany designed Peruvian U-boat


Displacement:
414 t light; 424 t standard; 458 t normal; 485 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
165.68 ft / 164.04 ft x 19.69 ft x 11.81 ft (normal load)
50.50 m / 50.00 m x 6.00 m x 3.60 m

Armament:
1 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft gun in deck mount
on centreline aft
2 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1929 Model
Machine guns in deck mounts
on centreline, all amidships
Weight of broadside 2 lbs / 1 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 450
4 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:

- Conning tower: 0.79" / 20 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion generators plus batteries,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 1,019 shp / 760 Kw = 15.00 kts
Range 2,500nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 61 tons

Complement:
49 - 64

Cost:
£0.080 million / $0.318 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.1 %
Armour: 1 tons, 0.2 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.2 %
Machinery: 31 tons, 6.7 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 282 tons, 61.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 44 tons, 9.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 21.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
239 lbs / 108 Kg = 154.6 x 1.5 " / 37 mm shells or 0.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 0 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0.420
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.33 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 12.81 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Stern: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Average freeboard: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 0.0 %
Waterplane Area: 2,013 Square feet or 187 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 278 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs/sq ft or 463 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 3.64
- Longitudinal: 2.71
- Overall: 2.92
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

All tubes are forward.

12 tons of the miscellaneous tonnage are for 8 reload torpedoes.

---------------------
D-1, German designed Peruvian Torpedo boat

Displacement:
987 t light; 1,039 t standard; 1,139 t normal; 1,218 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
323.74 ft / 311.68 ft x 29.53 ft x 10.83 ft (normal load)
98.68 m / 95.00 m x 9.00 m x 3.30 m

Armament:
6 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns (3x2 guns), 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1932 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (1x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mount
on centreline aft, all raised guns - superfiring
4 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1932 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 216 lbs / 98 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 240
4 - 21.0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -
3rd: 0.39" / 10 mm - -

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 28,150 shp / 21,000 Kw = 33.50 kts
Range 3,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 179 tons

Complement:
97 - 127

Cost:
£0.614 million / $2.454 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 27 tons, 2.4 %
Armour: 16 tons, 1.4 %
- Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Armament: 16 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 0 tons, 0.0 %
- Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 555 tons, 48.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 364 tons, 31.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 151 tons, 13.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 25 tons, 2.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
358 lbs / 162 Kg = 10.1 x 4.1 " / 105 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 10.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.400
Length to Beam Ratio: 10.56 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 20.33 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 69 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.64 ft / 0.50 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m
- Mid (35 %): 18.04 ft / 5.50 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Stern: 11.48 ft / 3.50 m
- Average freeboard: 13.78 ft / 4.20 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 179.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 105.2 %
Waterplane Area: 5,879 Square feet or 546 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 59 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 30 lbs/sq ft or 146 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.50
- Longitudinal: 2.50
- Overall: 0.58
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

5 tons reserved for depth charges and rails

20 tons reserved for mines and growth