WesWorld

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
5 532 t light; 5 705 t standard; 6 500 t normal; 7 110 t full load
Loading submergence 427 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590,55 ft x 42,65 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
180,00 m x 13,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
3 - 0,83" / 21 mm guns (2 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)(2x1, 1x1)
Main turrets are grouped together
4 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 512 lbs / 232 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 7,28" / 185 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 95 % of normal area
Main turrets 7,28" / 185 mm, 2nd turrets 4,92" / 125 mm
AA gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower 7,28" / 185 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 47 949 shp / 35 770 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 8 200nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
361 - 470

Cost:
£1,296 million / $5,183 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 64 tons, 1,0 %
Armour: 1 407 tons, 21,6 %
Belts: 830 tons, 12,8 %, Armament: 196 tons, 3,0 %, Armour Deck: 327 tons, 5,0 %
Conning Tower: 55 tons, 0,8 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 627 tons, 25,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 335 tons, 35,9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 968 tons, 14,9 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,5 %

Metacentric height 1,9

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,18
Shellfire needed to sink: 7 933 lbs / 3 598 Kg = 28 074,0 x 0,8 " / 21 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 62 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,34
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,56

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,459
Sharpness coefficient: 0,29
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9,68
'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim: 40
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 92,6 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 115,2 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 123 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1,00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 80 lbs / square foot or 389 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,08
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2,51 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

I question your choice of primary armament;

3 - 0,83" / 21 mm guns (2 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)(2x1, 1x1)

Should these be 210mm guns?

Her she is with 210mm guns, removed from the old AC Tapperheten and Predreadnought Dristigheten.

I have also uploaded the superdreadnought Fäderneslandet om my page.

The ship has so many guns systems for cadet pratactise, not actual combat.

I case of war she serves as a staff ships, with the guns only for self defence.

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
6 365 t light; 6 629 t standard; 7 500 t normal; 8 167 t full load
Loading submergence 482 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590,55 ft x 45,93 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
180,00 m x 14,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
3 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (2 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
4 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 1 359 lbs / 617 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 7,28" / 185 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 95 % of normal area
Main turrets 7,28" / 185 mm, 2nd turrets 4,92" / 125 mm
AA gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 40 732 shp / 30 386 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 8 400nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
402 - 523

Cost:
£1,524 million / $6,098 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 170 tons, 2,3 %
Armour: 1 759 tons, 23,5 %
Belts: 866 tons, 11,5 %, Armament: 546 tons, 7,3 %, Armour Deck: 307 tons, 4,1 %
Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0,5 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 382 tons, 18,4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 954 tons, 39,4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 135 tons, 15,1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,3 %

Metacentric height 1,8

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,08
Shellfire needed to sink: 9 937 lbs / 4 507 Kg = 35,2 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 53 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,70
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,43

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,492
Sharpness coefficient: 0,30
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9,23
'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim: 37
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 80,6 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 117,7 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 125 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,99
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 95 lbs / square foot or 466 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,10
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2,11 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

2x aircraft, 1x catapult.

To put so much armor on such a vessel seems to be a waste of money and material.....?!

Just my thoughts...

HoOmAn

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
5 437 t light; 5 627 t standard; 6 502 t normal; 7 176 t full load
Loading submergence 427 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590,55 ft x 42,65 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
180,00 m x 13,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
3 - 0,83" / 21 mm guns (2 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
6 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 727 lbs / 330 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 3,94" / 100 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 100 % of normal area
Main turrets 7,28" / 185 mm, 2nd turrets 125,00" / 3 175 mm
AA gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 1,18" / 30 mm, Conning tower 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 47 962 shp / 35 780 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 9 000nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
362 - 470

Cost:
£1,348 million / $5,393 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 91 tons, 1,4 %
Armour: 1 159 tons, 17,8 %
Belts: 472 tons, 7,3 %, Armament: 323 tons, 5,0 %, Armour Deck: 327 tons, 5,0 %
Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,6 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 627 tons, 25,0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 460 tons, 37,8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 066 tons, 16,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,5 %

Metacentric height 1,9

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Excellent seaboat, comfortable and able to fight her guns in the heaviest weather

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,19
Shellfire needed to sink: 7 688 lbs / 3 487 Kg = 27 206,2 x 0,8 " / 21 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 53 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,45
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,52

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,459
Sharpness coefficient: 0,29
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9,67
'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim: 35
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 95,7 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 114,9 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 124 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1,02
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 84 lbs / square foot or 410 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,09
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2,51 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,03

2x aircraft, 1x catapult.

You´re still using 21mm main guns....?!

Wierd bug, I know I changed the guns to 210mm aleast 2 times before.

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
5 352 t light; 5 595 t standard; 6 502 t normal; 7 202 t full load
Loading submergence 427 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590,55 ft x 42,65 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
180,00 m x 13,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
3 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (2 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
4 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (2 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 1 359 lbs / 617 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 3,94" / 100 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 80 % of normal area
Main turrets 7,28" / 185 mm, 2nd turrets 4,92" / 125 mm
AA gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 32 228 shp / 24 042 Kw = 27,00 kts
Range 9 400nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
362 - 470

Cost:
£1,318 million / $5,270 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 170 tons, 2,6 %
Armour: 1 232 tons, 18,9 %
Belts: 378 tons, 5,8 %, Armament: 545 tons, 8,4 %, Armour Deck: 272 tons, 4,2 %
Conning Tower: 37 tons, 0,6 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 093 tons, 16,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 757 tons, 42,4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 151 tons, 17,7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,5 %

Metacentric height 1,6

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation & workspaces is adequate
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,06
Shellfire needed to sink: 8 851 lbs / 4 015 Kg = 31,3 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,5
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 45 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,89
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,34

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,459
Sharpness coefficient: 0,29
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 9,67
'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 41 %
Trim: 30
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 78,4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 114,9 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 133 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,98
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 94 lbs / square foot or 459 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,17
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 2,51 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

2x aircraft, 1x catapult.

I beg your pardon for being straight forward but there are several sever problems I see.

a) The length to beam ratio is 13,846... That´s waaaay too much. Honestly, I fear your ship will snap in two.

b) Your ships block coefficient is oddly low for a 5,600ts cruiser.

a) and b) together explain why you can put so much stuff on such a low displacement that easily. In fact, you´re using a well known "bug" of spring* when putting together an absurdly (for the ships displacement) long and slender hull with a very low bc. It looks nice on paper but in reality it wouldn´t work. As an example take a look at the british ARETHUSA-class CLs which had a similar displacement but completely different dimensions. Even the italian light cruisers didn´t have hulls as extrem as your training vessel.

c) Laid down in 1922 your ship will be ready for duty in ~1924/25 (trials finished). Using hindsight one wonders if it is such a good idea to use such a low max. speed. Is the swedish navy that rich that it can affort such a special ship build for just one purpose? Historically very few navies build pure training cruiser and even then most of them (like the argentinian LA ARGENTINA) could be used as a normal fleet cruiser. With only 27kn your cruiser will not be able to act as a normal fleet unit.

d) Combined with the above - the special purpose the ship is build for and its non-frontline status - I question the amount of armor put on that hull. Why should it be that heavily armored when it is not planned to use it where it could be fired upon? When cruising the world with cadets it surely doesn´t need any armor - well, at least not that much.

Points c) and d) together doesn´t make sense to me at all. What is the doctrine behind a "cruiser" featuring low speed and thick armor? Further more...

e) The armament is odd. Okay, I guess you wanted different guns to train your cadets. I can accept that but why on earth a twin and a single 210mm mount? Don´t you want to train your cadets some lessons about fire control? If so how will you train them spotting own salvos and fire distribution etc. with such an odd layout? What is the submerged TT good for?

Just my thoughts of course but I would never ever build such an odd vessel. It is severly flawed I think.

Cheers,

HoOmAn

I've redesigned the ship abit.
Main purpose, cadet training
war purpose, convoy flagship and command ship for cruiser flottila.

Speed, abit low but similar to the speed of the HMS Gotland(real) laid down in 1927 27,5 knots.

The main guns are from older ACs and BBs
Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
7 679 t light; 8 079 t standard; 9 000 t normal; 9 701 t full load
Loading submergence 569 tons/feet

Dimensions:
590,55 ft x 52,49 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
180,00 m x 16,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
6 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (3 Main turrets x 2 guns, 1 superfiring turret)
8 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (4 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 2 636 lbs / 1 195 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 4,72" / 120 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 90 % of normal area
Main turrets 7,28" / 185 mm, 2nd turrets 4,92" / 125 mm
AA gun shields 0,39" / 10 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 0,98" / 25 mm, Conning tower 4,92" / 125 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 3 shafts, 46 375 shp / 34 596 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 8 000nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
462 - 600

Cost:
£2,088 million / $8,354 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 329 tons, 3,7 %
Armour: 1 939 tons, 21,5 %
Belts: 575 tons, 6,4 %, Armament: 956 tons, 10,6 %, Armour Deck: 362 tons, 4,0 %
Conning Tower: 46 tons, 0,5 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 573 tons, 17,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 737 tons, 41,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 321 tons, 14,7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,1 %

Metacentric height 1,9

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,00
Shellfire needed to sink: 10 451 lbs / 4 741 Kg = 37,0 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,6
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 57 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,95
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,13

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,516
Sharpness coefficient: 0,32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8,68
'Natural speed' for length: 24,30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
Trim: 50
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 87,8 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 122,6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 115 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 1,00
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 112 lbs / square foot or 545 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,03
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1,58 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

2x aircraft, 1x catapult.

you still have a lenght/beam ratio over 1, that's not good.

also, having so little beam is bad for stability and sustaining damage capability. See, for instance, what I was able to do with a similar displacement.

Marques de Montijo, Spanish training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
7.675 t light; 8.074 t standard; 9.077 t normal; 9.844 t full load
Loading submergence 584 tons/feet

Dimensions:
557,74 ft x 59,06 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
170,00 m x 18,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
8 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (4 Main turrets x 2 guns, 2 superfiring turrets)
8 - 4,00" / 102 mm guns (4 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
7 - 1,46" / 37 mm AA guns
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm guns
Weight of broadside 2.606 lbs / 1.182 kg
8 - 21,1" / 535,94 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 21,1" / 535,94 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 3,00" / 76 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 110 % of normal area
Main turrets 3,00" / 76 mm, 2nd turrets 0,50" / 13 mm
Armour deck 0,75" / 19 mm, Conning tower 1,00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 63.045 shp / 47.031 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 7.500nm at 15,00 kts

Complement:
464 - 604

Cost:
£2,296 million / $9,182 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 326 tons, 3,6 %
Armour: 1.145 tons, 12,6 %
Belts: 455 tons, 5,0 %, Armament: 397 tons, 4,4 %, Armour Deck: 283 tons, 3,1 %
Conning Tower: 9 tons, 0,1 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 2.139 tons, 23,6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.866 tons, 42,6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.402 tons, 15,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2,2 %

Metacentric height 3,0

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,16
Shellfire needed to sink: 9.003 lbs / 4.084 Kg = 31,8 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 51 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,63
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,490
Sharpness coefficient: 0,33
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8,18
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim: 46
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 109,4 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 131,4 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 110 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,96
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs / square foot or 554 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,41
(for 18,86 ft / 5,75 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 4,01 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

1 catapult, 1 seaplane.


I think it's much a better ship both as training vessel and as flagship of light cruiser forces in war time (half of the miscelaneous weight is for extendend wireless equipment and accomodations for a high officer, the other half for the catapult&seaplane). It's fast at 30 knots, has 2 more guns, and even while it's much less armored than your design, well, a training cruiser really doesn't need all that much armor, and 3 inches on the belt and turret are decent for a ship of its purpose, size and displacement.

I updated her, in abit Nelson style with an all front main battery, heavier 2ndary arnament. She makes 29knots, a rather avrge speed, her 100tons of extra weight is for aircraft and catapult(ca 50ton) and two larger sloops for extra navigationaö pratice. Her class rooms can be used for staff controlrooms and teacher cabins are for staff officers(all teak and mahognay are removed in case of war anyway).

In my original plan the guns where reused from older BC, Predreads and AC, but now the armour is thinner. The underwater torpedotube is of the standard submarine kind (with outer doors) so the submarine cadets can train their weapons too.

wow 100tons wireless when can I get so much radios to play with.

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
7 106 t light; 7 560 t standard; 8 500 t normal; 9 218 t full load
Loading submergence 558 tons/feet

Dimensions:
557,74 ft x 59,06 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
170,00 m x 18,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
8 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
10 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (5 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 3 415 lbs / 1 549 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 1 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 3,35" / 85 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 110 % of normal area
Main turrets 2,17" / 55 mm, 2nd turrets 0,98" / 25 mm
AA gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower 3,35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 52 148 shp / 38 902 Kw = 29,00 kts
Range 8 500nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
442 - 575

Cost:
£2,332 million / $9,327 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 427 tons, 5,0 %
Armour: 1 009 tons, 11,9 %
Belts: 507 tons, 6,0 %, Armament: 329 tons, 3,9 %, Armour Deck: 142 tons, 1,7 %
Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0,4 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 769 tons, 20,8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 801 tons, 44,7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 394 tons, 16,4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 1,2 %

Metacentric height 2,4

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,04
Shellfire needed to sink: 7 540 lbs / 3 420 Kg = 26,7 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,3
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 75 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,98
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,459
Sharpness coefficient: 0,32
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 8,36
'Natural speed' for length: 23,62 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
Trim: 67
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 108,9 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 126,6 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 105 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,96
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs / square foot or 580 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,36
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1,75 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

1x aircraft, 1x catapult.

Even though I still can´t get warm with it your design has finally reached a point where one has to rate it as quite interesting. At least it offers a hell of a broadside for a cruiser... :o)

I made picture of her, I adjusted)to fit the picture, she gets a bit cramped, but I think it doesn't matter.

Dristigheten, Sweden Training cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
7 161 t light; 7 616 t standard; 8 500 t normal; 9 173 t full load
Loading submergence 550 tons/feet

Dimensions:
531,50 ft x 59,06 ft x 19,69 ft (normal load)
162,00 m x 18,00 m x 6,00 m

Armament:
8 - 8,27" / 210 mm guns (3 Main turrets, 1 superfiring turret)
Main turrets are grouped together
10 - 5,98" / 152 mm guns (5 2nd turrets x 2 guns)
6 - 2,95" / 75 mm AA guns
12 - 0,98" / 25 mm guns
Weight of broadside 3 415 lbs / 1 549 kg
4 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm above water torpedoes, 2 - 21,0" / 533,4 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
Belt 3,35" / 85 mm, ends unarmoured
Belts cover 115 % of normal area
Main turrets 2,17" / 55 mm, 2nd turrets 0,98" / 25 mm
AA gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm, Light gun shields 0,20" / 5 mm
Armour deck 0,39" / 10 mm, Conning tower 3,35" / 85 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 53 973 shp / 40 264 Kw = 29,00 kts
Range 8 000nm at 14,00 kts

Complement:
442 - 575

Cost:
£2,361 million / $9,442 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 427 tons, 5,0 %
Armour: 1 007 tons, 11,9 %
Belts: 508 tons, 6,0 %, Armament: 329 tons, 3,9 %, Armour Deck: 140 tons, 1,6 %
Conning Tower: 30 tons, 0,4 %, Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0,0 %
Machinery: 1 831 tons, 21,5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 696 tons, 43,5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 339 tons, 15,8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 2,4 %

Metacentric height 2,7

Remarks:
Hull space for machinery, storage & compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation & workspaces is excellent

Estimated overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Relative margin of stability: 1,11
Shellfire needed to sink: 7 061 lbs / 3 203 Kg = 25,0 x 8,3 " / 210 mm shells
(Approx weight of penetrating shell hits needed to sink ship excluding critical hits)
Torpedoes needed to sink: 1,2
(Approx number of typical torpedo hits needed to sink ship)
Relative steadiness as gun platform: 58 %
(Average = 50 %)
Relative rocking effect from firing to beam: 0,81
Relative quality as seaboat: 1,02

Hull form characteristics:
Block coefficient: 0,481
Sharpness coefficient: 0,34
Hull speed coefficient 'M': 7,96
'Natural speed' for length: 23,05 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim: 57
(Maximise stabilty/flotation = 0, Maximise steadiness/seakeeping = 100)

Estimated hull characteristics & strength:
Underwater volume absorbed by magazines and engineering spaces: 114,2 %
Relative accommodation and working space: 124,0 %
(Average = 100%)
Displacement factor: 103 %
(Displacement relative to loading factors)
Relative cross-sectional hull strength: 0,96
(Structure weight / hull surface area: 119 lbs / square foot or 581 Kg / square metre)
Relative longitudinal hull strength: 1,45
(for 16,40 ft / 5,00 m average freeboard, freeboard adjustment 1,75 ft)
Relative composite hull strength: 1,00

1x aircraft, 1x catapult.

http://www.geocities.com/kustflottan/kfl1914/trainingca.htm

All I get for a pic is a big fat red X! Damn geosites never work for me......gumble gruble mumble...&$%#.....

Quoted

Originally posted by psilander
wow 100tons wireless when can I get so much radios to play with.

not just wireless, but also and improved radio room, a command room and accomodations both for students for peace-times and for high ranking officers for war-time and naval exercises .

BTW your design looks much better now. congrats!

I wonder if those secondary turrets will be able to turn? As it seems they´d run against the superstructure and/or second funnel?

The 2ndary turrets turn in under the superstructure, where they have small bays a la Bismarck.

I put on some extra weight to accomaodate command and control facilities.

I honestly doubt there is enough space for those "bays" and thus no room for the turrets to turn. :o/

152mm turrets adjusted, are the barrels to long?

http://www.geocities.com/kustflottan/kfl1914/trainingca.htm