WesWorld

21 April, 1929 – Berlin
A surprise sale of warships was announced today by Chancellor Cuno – the predreadnoughts Schliesen and Schleswig-Holstein were being sold to Poland at a price of 2,000 tons of material per ship, hand-over to take place in 6 weeks. This, not surprisingly, caused an uproar amongst some of the more revanchist parties, the NSDAP deputies were particularly incensed as were some back-bench DNVP and even Foreign Minister Stresseman’s DVP back-benchers were muttering. Chancellor Cuno and Foreign Minister Stresseman stood firm, however, pointing out Grand Admiral Raeder’s testimony of earlier this year on the value of the old ships, the fact that during the Great War Admiral Tirpitz had removed them from the battleline by the end of the war, and pointing out that Poland DID exist, whatever some might like, and a friendly Poland would not offer a friendly landing point for forces hostile to Germany. Dr. Jarres, head of the DNVP, did not speak, his silence signalling his ambivalence on the matter. The continuing debate, some characterized it as a row, brought in Grand Admiral Raeder, who signalled his approval of the sale, saying that the old ships would have been replaced soon anyway and if Poland was willing to pay more than salvage prices, which they were, and if that funding went to the Navy, which it would, he and the Admiralstab were in favor of it. These testimonies settled some, though certainly not all, of the opposition to the sale, and after more loud and angry debate, the final vote on the matter approved the sale.

3 May, 1929 – Alexandria
The Kriegsmarine flotilla of Koln, Breslau, S-152, S-153, H-166, H-167, H-168, H-169 and the hired tanker SS Markheim, after calls in Cadiz, Oran, and Tripoli, has dropped anchor in the harbor outside of Alexandria. As has become a pattern, guests will be welcomed in two days onboard the flagship Breslau.

Thats some steal for Poland.

No, no, that's some steel for Poland.

There's a profit for Germany, but we're not making a huge killing on a ship that's pretty old at this point.

Whoops, I see where the "steal" comment came from: the price is 2,000 tons per ship, not 2,000 tons total. It's not a giveaway, Germany IS making a slight profit on the sale, but it's not a large profit on older vessels like this. Corrected now.

I wonder what Poland will do with those old pre-dreads.....?!

What they wouldn't without them?

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one lol.

Is this really legal? I don't think so.

Has any of the two nations involved signed the Cleito Treaty already? I´m not sure if the VT allows the sale of surplus ships.....

Neither country has signed Cleito as of yet, which would prevent the sale. The WesWorld VT DOES NOT ban Germany from selling ships, Germany has already done so in the past (a number of old CLs to the Philipines). The RL VT did ban the sale of ships, but the WW VT does not do so.

Ignore this

Ignore which? What Germany's doing, or something else?

I think he meant his message was no longer relevant.

Ah, OK. I was kind of puzzled there for a bit.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
Neither country has signed Cleito as of yet, which would prevent the sale. The WesWorld VT DOES NOT ban Germany from selling ships, Germany has already done so in the past (a number of old CLs to the Philipines). The RL VT did ban the sale of ships, but the WW VT does not do so.

Thats the way I read it, the Philippines recieved several cruisers from Germany this way.

15 May, 1929 – Berlin
The Heeres Waffenampt (Army Weapons Department, HWA) has issued a request for proposals to industry for a new rifle and cartridge combination, based on the Great War Gewehrpruefungskommission report. The proposals are to have the following characteristics:
i)The rifle s to weigh no more than the K.98 and to be lighter if possible, and is to be shorter.
ii) At 600 metres, trajectory and accuracy are to equal the K.98.
iii) To take the existing grenade cup discharger.
iv) To be of self-loading design.
v) To be able to operate in arctic or desert conditions, and be dirt and dustproof. .
vi) To have simple mechanism.
vii) To have reduced recoil vs the K.98
Bore size and cartridge case size are for the designers to determine, within the range of 6.5mm and 7.92mm bore and 30 and 45mm case length.

Quoted

Originally posted by Hrolf Hakonson
15 May, 1929 � Berlin
The Heeres Waffenampt (Army Weapons Department, HWA) has issued a request for proposals to industry for a new rifle and cartridge combination, based on the Great War Gewehrpruefungskommission report. The proposals are to have the following characteristics:
i)The rifle s to weigh no more than the K.98 and to be lighter if possible, and is to be shorter.
ii) At 600 metres, trajectory and accuracy are to equal the K.98.
iii) To take the existing grenade cup discharger.
iv) To be of self-loading design.
v) To be able to operate in arctic or desert conditions, and be dirt and dustproof. .
vi) To have simple mechanism.
vii) To have reduced recoil vs the K.98
Bore size and cartridge case size are for the designers to determine, within the range of 6.5mm and 7.92mm bore and 30 and 45mm case length.

Hmm cerfull now Hrolf Germany had avery stict policy in small arms.
You talking about a Intermediet cartridge in early 30's
First real attemt for it wose in 1936 and then only a reserch paper,first were born in 1943 in both USSR and the Reich, and that after long war lessonds.
Your are speding thing much to Early.

Actually, both the Brits and the US had designs for intermediate cartridges in this time period, they simply weren't adopted (due to lack of funding or institutional inertia). In Germany, the mentioned report pointed out that the 7.92mmx57 was overpowered for an infantry weapon and recommended a less-powerful cartridge. Nothing was done with it, other than issuing some troops with SMGs during the Great War, until later, for similar reasons (plus once rearmament began the factories were busy producing Kar. 98s). Here, though, the time pressure is not the same as in RL: while the Army will grow some after Versailles is lifted, Germany is not in a huge hurry to have a large army again, and if there's going to be a rifle cartridge change, the mid-30s are a feasible time to explore it. Also, during the 20s and 30s there was work done on the idea of a self-loading rifle for the German Army, just like there was for the US, the British, and the Russian Armies. These were not fully-automatic weapons, they were semi-automatic, but they would have been an improvement on the bolt-action weapons of the Great War.

In RL, in Germany it was 1934-35 when the idea of the intermediate cartridge really started getting worked on, but that was WELL after the .276 Pedersen had been developed in the US, that was done in 1923.

Also, the Avtomat Federova, using the 6.5mm Arisaka, was designed in 1916, and used in the Russian Civil War in small quantities, IIRC.

Quite so. There were nearly "intermediate" cartridges already in use (the 6.5 mm Carcano and Arisaka rounds), but they were mostly used in regular bolt-action rifles. And there was the Browning Automatic Rifle, showing what you could do even with a full power cartridge, but it was far, far too heavy and expensive to be the standard issue infantry weapon.

In any event, where Germany is going with this is for industry to show what they have in 1932 (cartridge and rifle development take some time), then a period of examination and refinement, then a decision towards 1935. Whether the K.98 will be replaced will depend a lot on the world situation: if Germany's already having to build up for a threatening war, then it's probably not the time. If, however, Germany's been able to keep it's Army relatively smaller, then perhaps a self-loading rifle will be acquired to replace the K.98

There are also the Italian sub-machine guns and assault rifles from WWI. Quite a few models produced by Revelli and Villar-Perosa. Mostly 9mm weapons, but with selective fire and effective out to 900m or so. I'm sure a 6.5mm semi-automatic Carcano will be adopted in lieu of the historical 7.35mm.